A question for Friars

[minstrel_kyra]

I am well aware of how incredible friars are in rvr, but (and forgive me if i'm mistaken here) most are staff/enh friars.

So what I am wondering is what is it like for those of you (if there are any out there) who have your rej up to 18 or 25.

I know I am going against the conventional wisdom and wanting to bump up my rej, because I really think that I would do more good as a healing friar (that's all i do in groups, i don't get many opportunities to tank). Only time I get to shine and take on the big mobs is when I am soloing. Unless of course i just make a healing friar for now and then join the fray and spec like everyone else when i hit 50. Not really sure I want to do that, then again, I have never been one to follow the crowd.

Anyway, some thoughts on this? I have checked the Char builder but I can't tell how effective those different specs would be in game play.

Anyway right now, my nearly level 29 friar is at
Rej 11
enh 20
staff 24
parry 5

And I can solo most oranges easily. God I love my ninja friar

 

[Garaen]

Take a look at www.drunkenfriar.com its a useful site for Friars.

 

[mirieth]

Nim's Friar had 25 Rejuve, if I remember rightly. She had Rejuve at something like that, anyway. She always did really well . Try speaking to her in-game, I'm sure she'd be happy to give you advice .


... I miss that cute little Friar

 

[CliffyG]

I have 25 rejuve and do a consistent heal of 293 a go. More than enough to keep people alive in most situations. Only prob is that it is a 3 second cast time which means it's pretty useless when gettgin zerged. My finished spec will be 25 rejuve, 45 enhance, 39 staff and 12 parry. I have + 10 in parry and staff, master of parry 1 and dodger 1. I can solo oranges, tank reds / low purps with a cleric in group or be a groups main healer so plenty of variety too .

 

[Gohrim]

-.-

loads of specs are good.

Im 11 reju 45 ench 44 staf 16 parry and gladly duel u if u think u got a better spec

(duel u if u have a worse one 2 just like dueling )

 

[GReaper]

25 rejuv gives a fairly decent 293 spec heal. A 25 rejuv, 39 staff, 45 enhance template is possible, with some spare points in parry. You won't be able to go for 47 enhance, or 44 staff though.

I like 25 rejuv, 39 staff, 45 enhance. I'm never going to be a Cleric, but being a secondary healer who can defend himself well is very useful.

 

[Traia]

Healing is in with the past and the 1x spec points! Manadancer spec is the only way now.

 

[old.linnet]

Originally posted by mirieth
Nim's Friar had 25 Rejuve, if I remember rightly. She had Rejuve at something like that, anyway. She always did really well . Try speaking to her in-game, I'm sure she'd be happy to give you advice .


... I miss that cute little Friar

Yes, but she also had a spec you can't get these days, because of the extra bonus points that friars who were 40+ got as a reward for sticking it out when they changed them to 1.5 spec points per level >

 

[Piper]

True, Linnet - but Nim was basically 39 staff, 45 enhance, 25 rejuv, rest in parry. I just had a little more in parry because of the extra points.

I loved the spec and probably wouldn't have respecced when all that jazz came in.

 

[Generic Poster]

This isn't the worst spec for an all-round, wannabe healer:
Enh 47
Staff 39
Rejuv 18
Parry 16

The lv18 heal, heals for just over 200 which is good enough for a secondary healer. You have everything from the Enh line, except for the final Cold and Matter resist. But you get the final Haste, which is not to be laughed at.

You don't get the lv44 Staff style, but melee is mostly spamming Friar's Boon. Also, you can raise Staff to 50+ without trouble, so your melee-damage will be good.

 

[CliffyG]

Forgot to say MCL 1 is a must as our power gets drained pretty quickly when doing lots of heals.

 

[Sarum TheBlack]

My final template was going to be 18 rej (before they gave the enh line some serious love and gave us extra spec points it was going to be higher, I remember outhealing clerics in keltoi months and months ago..) but I'm not sure if I'll go for the first HoT at 24 now.. I'll probably sacrifice some staff to get it, in which case my template would be something like

39 Staff (+11 from RR and SC eventually)
45 Enh (leaves out the last haste buff and some resist buffs)
25 Rejuv (a decent spec heal, and the HoT, might just be 18 if the US decides the 24 HoT isn't worth it)
12 Parry (+loads from RR and SC)

I might be a gimp... but so's my wizard, so I don't care

 

[tryffie]

my spec is =

staff = 39
enh = 47
rej = 25
parry = 7

but i'm lucky being a pre patch friar, i've got a few extra points.
i can tank with the best of them ( except against champs, god i hate those debuffs/LW stun/being owned by a luri with a big hammer/etc )

i can say that i found that even the 18rejuv heal wasn't enough while healing lvl45+ armsmen/mercs. they can have 2000+ hitpoints easy while buffed, and that means 10+ heals at 18 to get them back to full health again, ie nearly your whole mana bar.

Though i wouldn't say you HAVE to spec rejuv that high, i know a far few friars that have pushed to 33 rej and love it. Look at what you want from your char: eg a Healer-tank, a healing-tank or a tanking-healer. I went for what i regard are the middle road, but thats the great thing about friars, as long as you stick a fair few points into enh for the class fixes, its very difficult to come out with a gimped spec

hope this helps

 

[Pliny]

39 staff 45 enhance 16 rejuv and 23 parry. With rr4 now ive got +3 to all pushing my base heals into the 25%-125% variance usually heal for 160-280 but i find that fine also 1 major point for going high rejuv is for the ress at 15 its alot better than ghetto ress v.good for casters gives them some power and a few hps so they can move at normal speed and cast their bt and af buffs.

 

[Jamagei]

I have 18 rejuve and I seem to do alright, and I am not even 50 yet! (for those who really care about if you aren't 50 and therefore have no idea how to play the game.... soz, another thread another time ) but I can keep groups alive sometimes, depending on whether someone has 4 tanks and a nuker on them or not. But generally I see my job to empty my mana bar then go whack someone upside the head.

But yes, the 18 juve spec does 215 a heal, but the cast time isn't great, however, with the high dex it is reduced greatly.

imo, 18 juve though isn't a healing orientated friar, 25, 33 is certainly is though.

At 50 I'll have 39 staff, 49 enh, 18 juve, 9 parry.

And according to most friars, stopping at 45 enh is a silly place to stop.

 

[georgus]

Going for slighty odd spec myself;

39 staff
38 enhance
25 rejuv
27 parry (yeah I know)

Logic is i've never spent loads of time in RvR and prefer hunting of items/drops etc and currently with my 12+10 parry I parry almost as much as I evade.

Only 47 but in RvR not had any problems, a 50 shadowblade popped up next to me and killed a caster then turned on me (using silly crook top staff), first hit on him was about 350, assuming he wasnt grouped cos he hardly hit me and in the end tried to leg it but someone else finished him.

Not claiming thats particulary brilliant but he conned orange and if I'd be playing either of my other 50 chars they'd of been likely taking a dirt nap or at best running for it.

Only thing nagging at me is the last absorb buff, still have enough spec points left but cant make a decision

 

[Jamagei]

Nah, that's not odd, that's a nice spec if you ask me

You need to spend 249 points for the last absorb buff and all you gain from that is 5% extra absorb and 5% less endurance used, you lose 6% chance to parry from it which is 100% damage avoided whereas 5% absorb is 5% reduction, however that is from any direction and does it for every hit whereas Parry is your front arc and if someone has a high weaponskill there is little chance of parrying regardless imo.

I would personally go for the end reduction (this also increase sprinting times as well) and absorb buff, because you can bump your parrying with +items and RA's whereas your absorb will be the same.

Admittedly you can bump your end regen with RA's but why bother?

 

[omi]

Here's my spec:

46 staff
44 enh
12 parry
7 rejuv

My thinking behind this spec is this:

44 enh - at 42 we get the final end usage reduction buff and at 44 the 15% absorb buff gives us 25% in total (only 2% less than chain armour), 45 in enh is pointless because due to capping the 45 dex/qui buff isnt worth it and the extra 12 AF isnt either. 46 enh is an option for those wanting additional heat resist (+24%)but i felt +16% was adequate. 47 enh looked tempting for that final haste buff which makes you look possessed when activated but tbh in combat I generally have a theurg haste buff on all the time and use that rather than the 30 second duration 3 min recharge self-haste buff (however when I dont have a theurg haste buff and fire the self-haste it does kick serious ass). Any higher I feel is a waste of points.

7 rejuv - I didnt wanna be a healer (yes I know its one of my classes core skills and I am one of only 2 healing classes in Albion but I like to dive in and hit things with my stick ok? =P) but I did want to be able to cure DoT and disease.

46 staff - this was maximum staff I could get with 44 enh and 7 rejuv. I did not go this high because of any attack style - in fact the only styles I really use are Friars Boon and Counter Evade. I went this high because with (currently) 46+11 staff - my damage variance isa greatly reduced, my damage cap is increased and the chance that an enemy will block, parry or evade - or indeed that I will miss is also reduced. This does make a difference as I have tested in PvE being able to easily solo red con Succubuses or Shredders (dont nerf us please =P). Also in duels I am pretty much unbeaten by any melee class except other friars (havent tested against a friar with rejuv spec - that would be interesting).

12 parry - chucked left over points here. I just dont think parry is particularly viable in RvR atm.


I have been successful with this spec and would recommend to any would be kung-fu friar.

However - I know rejuv spec works well too - I know several competent rejuv spec friars and they do well in battle. I have no experience of playing that spec tho so cant really comment on it in detail.

Any rejuv specced friars that would like a duel to test the variance in damage etc between specs feel free to /send me in game.

 

[Jamagei]

the way I see it, my extra +resists by speccing 49 enh means that I have to do less healing when various nukes are used (doesn't help chanters PBAoE, but is great for when they QC stun )

Mmmm 48% heat/cold resists

But anyway, yes 18 rejuve you can't be a main healer easily, however, you can do enough healing to change the tide a little. I managed to keep a level 42 Friar alive long enough for him to kill one of the two level 47+ tanks beating him up. I wasn't quite quick enough though with the spec heal (would probably be better to use base heal in RvR)

 

[CliffyG]

I just got 45 in enhance and contrary to belief it was worth it, as well as getting the new dex/qui buff (this did still increase both stats nicely even though i was near cap with dex) i got one called Shield of the Sanctified, a red self buff shield with a value of 58 which strangely added about 79 to my overall AF.

 

[Slinker]

Some interesting ideas , I have 2 ways I would like to go , not disimilar to one another , was thinking .

Staff 39
Enh 45
Reju 25
Parry 12

or

Staff 39
Enh 38
rejuv 25
Parry 27

at the minute my spec is (at lvl 26 )

Staff 21
Enh 20
Rejuv 7
Parry 2

I would like to know what sort of degree should you take staff /enhance up , stick to enhance for how long before raising staff or vice versa , or maybe both together , any help would be appreciated thankyou

 

[Jamagei]

Originally posted by CliffyG
I just got 45 in enhance and contrary to belief it was worth it, as well as getting the new dex/qui buff (this did still increase both stats nicely even though i was near cap with dex) i got one called Shield of the Sanctified, a red self buff shield with a value of 58 which strangely added about 79 to my overall AF.

Well, it increased your Dex/Qui by 4 (in terms of the previous buff), seriously that is all it does.

The extra AF might be worth it, but it is only an increase of 12AF from the last buff... not alot really.

But I am not going to argue about someones spec because you like it (and it evidently works for you)

 

[Col|]

Kyra, isn't your Friar the one with the pr0nstar name??

 

[old.Baritone]

Ive seen Omi in action and he rocks, His spec rock my boat

 

[old.vynticator]

Rejuv 25 or 33 is the only smart spec

Read posts by Ephraim and Predian, also Hoberion, three of the Drunkenfriar.com gods of Friardom. They explain why it is totally viable to go 25 or 33 spec in heal.

Essentially it boils down to this: kiddie friars think they need to go 44 in staff to hit hard. In fact, anyone with 34+13 (rr3and items) is going to near as damn it match you for damage. Everyone seems to think if you dont hit 50 total you're gimped...aint true.

What the 34+13 Staff spec friar can do, however, is *also* heal for 293 (25spec) or 383(33 spec) inbetween smashing troll skulls in.

Since friars really only have 2 things ever to do in rvr at most[melee and heal], those friars who have chosen to rule out 1 of them (heal) in favour of a minimal increase in dmg - those friars are the ones who are going to find life rather dull in their melee only world.

Iridel Vandraman
Chaplain Primus

<waits for the kiddies to rant, anticipates the liberal 'any spec is ok if you're happy with it' point of view, and spurns it to take a stand in favour of being able to do some good to your realm mates once in a selfless while, ffs>

 

[Turamber]

Re: Rejuv 25 or 33 is the only smart spec

Originally posted by old.vynticator
<waits for the kiddies to rant, anticipates the liberal 'any spec is ok if you're happy with it' point of view, and spurns it to take a stand in favour of being able to do some good to your realm mates once in a selfless while, ffs>

I hear what you are saying ... but ... a tanking spec is as viable as a healing spec. Each to their own. If people want to heal then surely rolling a rejuve cleric would be more fulfilling?

I've got a level 6 friar (only 1 in rejuve) and a highlander level 9 cleric (full rejuve). I find that when grouped people expect my friar to heal and my cleric (cos he is a highlander and built like a brick outhouse) to tank.... !

The long and short of it is that we ultimately play for ourselves and our own gaming experience. I like to see the 'bigger picture', but without having fun ourselves and with our characters templates we will not be sticking around very long in game to help anyone at all.

Oh and I'm 34, so not a kiddie

 

[omi]

Re: Rejuv 25 or 33 is the only smart spec

Originally posted by old.vynticator
Essentially it boils down to this: kiddie friars think they need to go 44 in staff to hit hard. In fact, anyone with 34+13 (rr3and items) is going to near as damn it match you for damage. Everyone seems to think if you dont hit 50 total you're gimped...aint true.

I have been a keen reader of Drunkenfriar.com since before I even rolled my friar. I have read most of Predians' etc posts.

The conclusion I came to - which they dont disagree with - is that yes the actual damage figures that are logged for each hit by a reuv spec vs battle spec friar are not that different.

However -

a) the variance in damage is noticably different with lower staff spec.

b) the possibility of an enemy evading / parrying / blocking or you actually missing is noticably reduced with higher weaponskill gained from the higher staff spec. This is a very important point because lets assume a friar with lower staff spec is doing 300 dmg per hit and the high staff spec is doing 320 per hit. So not a great difference there - but what if out of 20 hits the lower staff spec friar only lands 15 (i.e. was blocked / evaded / parried or misses) whereas the higher lands 18 or more? As we all know that can easily mean the difference between winning and losing.

c) finally your damage cap is increased (not massively - but increased nonetheless).

I understand and appreciate your points mate - I do sometimes feel helpless when an ally in RvR needs healing and I proceed to heal for 100hits using about a a quarter of my mana. I hear your argument that a rejuv/staff hybrid is viable. Its simply that I wanted to play the class to concentrate on its powerful and unique melee style but not to be a healer.. I am by no means saying that rejuv specced friars dont hurt - any spec of friar is a capable killer (unless they went 50 parry lol).

those friars are the ones who are going to find life rather dull in their melee only world.

I have to say I personally find healing dull and melee exciting. Again my personal view.

<waits for the kiddies to rant, anticipates the liberal 'any spec is ok if you're happy with it' point of view, and spurns it to take a stand in favour of being able to do some good to your realm mates once in a selfless while, ffs>

Hopefully I havent fallen in to either of your stereotypes with this response - but what I will say is this:

Can 'doing some good to your realm mates' simply be described as healing them?

Would you not agree that killing the enemy who is trying to kill them is also doing them some good?...

 

[old.vynticator]

Hat off to Omichronicus

Hi Omi - this is a brief reply to you. I think you've made an extremely mature and well-informed critique of my post. In fact, I feel a bit guilty because I was trying to be a bit provocative against what I perceive to be a flood of rather selfish players who have rolled the flavour of the month, and to stick up for rejuv spec friars. In doing so (and partly due to the requirements of economy in BW posts), I didn't want to be unfair to battle friars who are as well thought-through as you clearly are.

So- I'll try to refine my arguments, since I was previously rather extreme in order to stake a claim for the rejuver


>a) the variance in damage is noticably different with lower staff >spec.

I was a bit surprised with this one: I'm not sure there is a very major difference between 47 and 50+ in staff spec. I haven't come across testing to validate that on df.com

>b) the possibility of an enemy evading / parrying / blocking or >you actually missing is noticably reduced with higher >weaponskill gained from the higher staff spec.

This is the key issue, really, and the main risk you take with a rejuv spec. Still:-

1) You can draw points from Enhance: many take it only to 35 or 38, and claim to notice little difference, though personally I felt a major leap in survivability at 44 enhance with the last absorb buff.

2) I haven't heard people like Hoberion, for instance, lament the dropoff in effectiveness in melee, when he dropped from about 60 staff to about 50. I know that Predian has complained of such things, but he has a radical spec with only 29 staff base. I think I probably stand by the belief that with a base skill in the region of 34 you can get a highly respectable weaponskill, especially with realm rank and item bonuses. I'd like to validate this with testing: if you fancy a few logged duels in game, please msg me!

>I have to say I personally find healing dull and melee exciting. >Again my personal view.
[snip]
>Would you not agree that killing the enemy who is trying to kill >them is also doing them some good?...


Of course, that's not something I can refute, hehe. It's not terribly exciting. However, I often find myself in the position of being in a group which desperately thirsts for healing. In keep takes, and keep defence, if I can't heal well, I know for sure I'd feel pretty rough. I sort of feel like I want to be able to meet that need. Still, I grant you I find smacking things down with the staff much more exciting. It's going to depend on how much keep-based activity you do, I suppose.

Anyway, apologies for my slightly unbalanced post, I hope to meet you in game and we can put our skills into harmonious practice, I'm sure, against our common foes.

Iridel Vandraman
Chaplain Primus