50 DW or 50 Slash?

[swords]

well im closing in on 45 now so im going into the home stretch to 50 (bout fookin' time too)
My question is this, whihc style would be more useful the 50 DW bleed style? or the Diamond slash style.

i know bleed sucks dmg wise but it has its uses (preventing stealthers stealthing for a bit) and it has good dmg with med end cost.
Though Diamond slash i supposedly a realy nice style though end hungry.

any advice as i will only spec one line to 50 and have 44 in the other and rest parry.

 

[old.Sepiritz]

The 50 dw style dual shadows is really good actually.
When I had it on my infil it did really nice damage. From what I heard about diamond slash its really not that much better then amethyst slash.

 

[Talifer]

Dual Shadows is better and more consistent damage than Diamond Slash and, provided you get infront, you can use it every round, not every other round.

If you're not infront then you can use Flank from the sides

If you are behind you can always use Back Slash

I guess it's a matter of taste, I have both, I never use Diamond Slash.

Talifer

 

[swords]

i will probably spec 50 DW then.
im used to using the side and rear chains often. hate those mercs who only use amy slash :/

 

[Vasconcelos]

Dual Shadows is the best option when in front of enemy: low end cost, nice damage (close to Diamond Slash) n haste effect from a DW style. U can even use Amethyst as a backup (use parry combo as backup if u r dueling)

When chasing enemies who run away from ya: Shadows Edge+Penumbra.

Flank combo is nice also.


Anyways, the damage from DW styles should be revised to balance the effort of leveling DW to 50 (Diamond Slash still dealing more damage than Dual Shadows), n a decent any-time style for DW would be nice tho.

 

[Flimgoblin]

Dual shadows does around the same as diamond slash...
however it's got a hefty defence penalty and it's positional...

yet there's no bonus from it (cept for a god awful bleed which isn't worth bothering with)

It's still a nice style though uses a little less endurance than amethyst.

 

[Eof]

I am 50 Dw and i prefer the styles, i still use amy slash as back up though.

End of the day I find that I can use styles longer with Dual wielding but as all others have said tehre are pros and ocns for both.

_________________________
Eoforwic Sanguis 50 Mercenary
Covenant of Zak

 

[belth]

If you can be bothered with the occasional fail on performing DS, go with it.

 

[swords]

can always do DS with amy backup now anyway

 

[dakeyras]

I use both and find both very good depending on the situation.

If i have a pala in the gp running end chant then the amethyst/diamond combo in a swirling battle is unbeatable. I do, however, like the animation for Dual Shadows

As far as damage goes, Diamond hits for around 10% more than Dual Shadows for me but if I took 2xDShadows vs 1x AS/DS combo then it would probably be pretty even.

I still find that the most common style I use in RvR is Backslash by a mile.

 

[K0nah]

Dual Shadows

the bleed on Dual Shadows is invaluable, end usage is reasonable too. the def penalty is only an issue with ppl who are hitting u back ie tanks/assasins, also remember its only medium bonus to hit so if ur up against a highly defensive class or an assasin with dodger7000 ur better off using amy slash (and diamond if u have it) just keep them bleeding...

some examples of the use of the heavy bleed:

1. vs a caster if hes bleeding he can do one qc and thats it till the bleed passes, its purgeable but not curable.

2. vs a healer/druid/bard the same, only his instas are usable while hes bleeding

3. vs a skald he cant mezz and rest for hitpoints if hes bleeding, or indeed run away at ss5.

4. vs a stealther they cant kite u and come back for a 2nd PA after they snare u, or if they run they cant stealth again till the bleed stops.

dont leave home without it.

 

[swords]

will keep those tips in mind once i get rvr active

 

[belth]

Originally posted by swords
can always do DS with amy backup now anyway

I mean when you're facing someone, then it's best to do Reflection/Hypnotic Darkness backed up by Dual Shadows, can't beat a 9 sec stun. As it's Dragonfang backed by Dual Shadows, if they decide to turn/move for some reason, DS fails. Those times Might not happen as often for a merc though, you do ~25% more damage hence killing em faster.

 

[Talifer]

Could some caster confirm that they can't cast while bleeding. I always thought this was the case, and the reason for the effect in general. But after hearing some casters on these boards saying things like "only the first dot interrupts" I'm begining to wonder. Is the time between bleed damage greater than the time it takes to cast various spells?

Talifer

 

[K0nah]

Originally posted by belth
I mean when you're facing someone, then it's best to do Reflection/Hypnotic Darkness backed up by Dual Shadows, can't beat a 9 sec stun.

if only Hypnotic was a 9sec, its not its 6sec, still 2-3 freehits tho which enuf to turn the tide of most fights.

talif: bleed isnt a dot, a caster can squeeze a cast out between the ticks if theyre very lucky, but 99% of the time they're f*cked for the duration of the bleed.

 

[Pin]

Originally posted by K0nah


if only Hypnotic was a 9sec, its not its 6sec, still 2-3 freehits tho which enuf to turn the tide of most fights.

7 secs
http://www.camelotherald.com/styles/style.php?s=203

Originally posted by K0nah
talif: bleed isnt a dot, a caster can squeeze a cast out between the ticks if theyre very lucky, but 99% of the time they're f*cked for the duration of the bleed.

QC

 

[K0nah]

Originally posted by K0nah
1. vs a caster if hes bleeding he can do one qc and thats it till the bleed passes, its purgeable but not curable.

pin plz read the thread first

6/7 whatever - its not 9.

 

[Pin]

And I'm pretty sure that a caster can still cast when bleeding, not 100%, but pretty sure.

Plenty of times I've been QC-stunned and nuked to fuck after landing a PA (having CD bladeturned/whatever).

Any casters want to let me PA them in a duel?

 

[K0nah]

well for example ive dual shadowed qte and had her slam bot hit me with her stood in front of me being interrupted every tick, most amusing

i think in ur case he purged as most casters would with lifebane ticking at sametime, if they have purge/its up ofc.

 

[Wou]

well for example ive dual shadowed qte and had her slam bot hit me with her stood in front of me being interrupted every tick, most amusing

No that is interrupt bug.

* He was probebly interupted by you.
* you where slamed.
* He tryed yo cast again, but your combat timer of last hit wasn't yet runned out.
* So he is interupted again.

Only way to preven that bug is to go out of melee range.


DoT's only interrupt first hit, so normaly bleed will do the same.

 

[belth]

Oh it's 7 sec stun only. Crap. Hibbies get another better style again, 50 blunts... 10 sec stun. Yey Mythic.

Apparently Emerald simu's DoT interrupts every tick. Gotta test it some day.

 

[K0nah]

u've got me doubting it too now Wou, but ive seen it on many many occaisons, i use the tactic regualrly to put someone out of action for a while, will conduct some test on my wiz

i use fast weapons so its not the "delay of next swing interupt bug" noone has a 9sec delay weapon...

on subject of dots, ive been interrupted on more than the first tick many times so maybe its that "myth" which is incorrect...

testing reqd.

 

[Eof]

Bleed

Was messing around duelling Grym last night and I thought the DS bleed would interrupt him but apparently not

_________________________
Eoforwic Sanguis 50 Mercenary
Covenant of Zak

 

[K0nah]

hmm i'm thinking Grym prolly has lvl3+ of MoA..? i'll do some tests on my wiz (MoAII) later to satisfy myself. the incident with qte i mentioned above was what made me start using it and her interruptions occured perfectly in time with each tick of the bleed, was a while ago tho, possibly before RA's, so we'll see later.

 

[yog-hurt]

both.

 

[Mcdonald]

Max both

To Swords:

-I think that the best thing you can do is to max both skills, not for the combat styles, but for the skill bonuses. 50 slash to max your damage output :swords: and 50 dual wield to have the best chance to score a double hit (even with dualist reflex ra I still swing with both weapons 2 out of 3 times at best ). As far as styles go I use amethyst-diamond combo and dual shadows interchangibly, andnd flank+shadow's rain from the sides. Reflection-Hypotic Darkness helps too but only if your timing is accurate...

If you want my overall evaluation of the class, I'll tell you that mercs suck :wall: damage-wise compared to berserkers (my L35 zerk on Pryd is more damaging than my L50 Merc on xcal) The dual wield mechanics are far worse than left axe, i'd rather double swing everytime for less damage rather than double swing every so and so with crappy styles... I mean, since we specialize in dual wielding we should have more powerful styles than the slash spec. I don't know if the rest of the fellow mercs here feel that way. Another thing that will probably annoy you once you start RvRing is the usefulness (or rather the uselessness) of "Increased Fumbles", 30min timer is too much for an ability that gets resisted :mgwhore2: most of the time.

Anyway, good luck with your merc and I hope you'll be able to :great: enjoy :great: RvR later

:bazbeer:

 

[Talifer]

OK, sorry for dragging up an old post but I did some brief (very brief) testing last night to gauge the relative damage of these styles.

Firstly, I did a test with the Dual Shadows bleed with a Theurgist and he was able to cast between bleeds. It looks to me as though the bleed will NOT stop people casting if they time it right, but it should interfere somewhat, it's going to depend on the cast times aswell, it's definitely going to stop people rezzing

Anyway my main goal is to look at a few Merc combos to see whether they hold any benefit over other combos. Let me stress this is not extensive testing, at some point I'll come back and do some tests with a hundred hits, these tests are done with about 5 each (My guess would be these figures might be ~2-3% out)

Dual Shadows = 89.85% (This is the bonus to damage)

Back Slash = 90.76%

Amethyst Slash = 61.09%
Diamond Slash = 94.66%

Flank = 81.69%
Shadow's Rain = 98.43%

Shadow's Edge = 73.24%
Penumbra = 102.53%

So looking purely from a damage point of view (deglecting to-hit modifiers and penelties etc...)

Dual Shadows = 89.85%
vs
Amethyst/Diamond Combo = 77.875%

Back Slash = 90.76%
vs
Shadow's Edge/Penumbra Combo = 87.885%

Flank/Shadow's Rain Combo = 90.06%

I'm a little disappointed, I actually did this to have a look at the DW rear style chain after a few of you said you use it when chasing folks down, I thought maybe it did more damage and I should stop using back slash. When Penumbra came in at 102% I was thinking hmmmm, this is promising, but the prerequisite, Shadow's Edge, brings the average damage right down On top of that Back Slash damage seems comparable with Dual Shadows, without the penalty to defense.

These figures seem to be matching some figures I saw on the VN boards a long time ago

Twin Spikes - 1.07
Twin Return - 1.95
Shadow's Edge - 1.72
Inflame - 1.63
Orbit - 1.95
Eclipse - 1.96
Misty Gloom - 1.49
Obscure - 1.00
Penumbra - 1.98
Reflection - 1.95
Flank - 1.82
Dark Tendrils - 1.95
Shadow's Rain - 1.95
Hypnotic Darkness - 1.95
Dual Shadows - 1.92

I'd be interested to know these figures for LA, but in conclusion, DW really needs a boost in damage.

Talifer

 

[Flimgoblin]

DW is around the same as slash... maybe slightly lower

rear slash style 'back slash' does more than the rear style in DW...

it's harder to measure LA bonus since yer working off 85% or something of the base damage... but you can factor that in.

 

[Tranquil-]

You can still stealth whatever while bleeding. Atleast you could a while ago.

About interruptions and dots. I've been interrupted on each fecking tick on dots. And no, they didn't chaincast it.

 

[Pin]

Originally posted by Tranquil-
You can still stealth whatever while bleeding. Atleast you could a while ago.

You can only stealth while bleeding/dotted if the person that caused the effect dies.