2h pally question

Kalidur

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I waas thinking about making a 2h pally and was wondering if any of these specs would be viable

50 2h, 29 slash, 46 chants, (16,8 parry and shield)

or

44 2h, 39 slash, 46 chants, (13,8 shield and parry)

or (with autotraining slash to 40)

50 2h, 39 slash, 42 chants (8 shield, rest parry)

one other thing, can u use the slash styles in 2h mode, ie use amethyst slash with a 2h weapon or would you be better of using 2h styles.

for a 2h pally what would be the main difference between 29 and 39 slash (44-50 2h)
 

Roken

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You can't use the Slash styles unless you are using a 1h Slash weapon

no idea on spec im afraid tho.
 

chretien

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Your spec is your choice and will very much depend on how you like to play. It's probably best to try and get a couple of respec stones to give you the opportunity to tinker a bit.

You can't use slash styles with 2H weapons, only 2H styles

For damage output, your second spec with autotraining sounds better, you want to have slash as high as possible. This is because of the way that weapon skills work in Alb. Your base damage type (Slash/Crush/Thrust) determines your minimum damage, the higher it is the closer to cap you'll do on average. This is true no matter what weapon you use (except for flex weapons). Your spec in 2H or Pole however determines your weaponskill, gives you your styles and increases your max damage.

Lets say for the sake of argument that with a 1h weapon your cap was 100 damage. If you had 1 point of skill in that weapon, you could hit for anything from 1-100 damage with every swing - totally random. If you had 50 spec in that weapon you'd hit for 80-100 damage every swing. Now let's say you want to use a 2h weapon. If 50 2H skill increases your max damage to 200 damage and you have 1 slash, 50 2H you would hit for anything from 1-200 damage per swing. If you had 50 slash, 50 2H, you would hit for 80-200 every swing. Having points in slash doesn't help your weaponskill or let you use styles but it increases the average amount of damage you do.
 

Bahumat

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Kalidur said:
I waas thinking about making a 2h pally and was wondering if any of these specs would be viable

50 2h, 29 slash, 46 chants, (16,8 parry and shield) Nope your dmg will be all over the place as albs have to double spec.....the low slash means you will hit with your 2hander for say 400 dmg then the next hit 200. it wont be consistant dmg

or

44 2h, 39 slash, 46 chants, (13,8 shield and parry) Yeah thats ok but no point having that low in shield. just spec the points into parry

or (with autotraining slash to 40)

50 2h, 39 slash, 42 chants (8 shield, rest parry)

one other thing, can u use the slash styles in 2h mode, ie use amethyst slash with a 2h weapon or would you be better of using 2h styles. No you have to use the 2 hand styles with the 2 hand wpn

for a 2h pally what would be the main difference between 29 and 39 slash (44-50 2h) Quite a bit in the variance as mentioned above....going from 50 to 44 means you lose a really small percentage in dmg but with aug str you can counter the difference.

check above i will edit your mesage with the answers

kinda posted in a rush so for a more user friendly explanation goto
http://www.drunkenfriar.com/forums/viewforum.php?f=3
 

mikke

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chretien said:
You can't use slash styles with 2H weapons, only 2H styles
Dont slash spec increese 2h dmg if he uses a slash 2handed sword then??

like why do mercs go 50dw\50slash if theyre gona use dw styles most? for ws i think...

or am i wrong here? :eek:
 

UndyingAngel

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mikke said:
Dont slash spec increese 2h dmg if he uses a slash 2handed sword then??

like why do mercs go 50dw\50slash if theyre gona use dw styles most? for ws i think...

or am i wrong here? :eek:
for ones you are right :p you need slash for base dmg when you are specing 2H in alb ;<

When I got 2H on my pally for RVRing I spec

36 Chants. (Most chants are yellow apart from AF, I use a BB anyway.. and with 2H styles twisting 4 chants is a bad idear anyway becuase of the increased end drain)
9 Parry
44 Slash (Increase in DMG and less veried DMG)
50 Two Handed (Last Rear Stun style)

this is my 2pence anyway =)
 

chretien

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mikke said:
Dont slash spec increese 2h dmg if he uses a slash 2handed sword then??

like why do mercs go 50dw\50slash if theyre gona use dw styles most? for ws i think...

or am i wrong here? :eek:
Er that's what I said regarding slash increasing 2H minimum damage. It doesn't however increase weaponskill with a 2H weapon.

There are primary weaponskills and other weapon skills. Primary ones all increase your weaponskill with that kind of weapon, increase your damage and give you styles. Primary weapons skills are Slash, Thrust, Crush, Flex, 2H, Pole and Staff. Other weapons skills increase other aspects of combat effectiveness or give you different styles but don't otherwise affect weaponskill or damage directly - Parry, Critical Strike, Dual Wield.

DW is a different type of weaponskill. It's not a primary weaponskill like slash/crush/thrust/pole/2H/flex/staff and so it doesn't increase WS or damage. All it does is increase your chance to swing both weapons at once and give you styles. Your damage and WS for each weapon is still based on your base damage skill (slash/crush/thrust). 2H works the way I described in my post above.
 

Danamyr

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Kalidur said:
I waas thinking about making a 2h pally and was wondering if any of these specs would be viable

50 2h, 29 slash, 46 chants, (16,8 parry and shield)

or

44 2h, 39 slash, 46 chants, (13,8 shield and parry)

or (with autotraining slash to 40)

50 2h, 39 slash, 42 chants (8 shield, rest parry)

one other thing, can u use the slash styles in 2h mode, ie use amethyst slash with a 2h weapon or would you be better of using 2h styles.

for a 2h pally what would be the main difference between 29 and 39 slash (44-50 2h)

The spec I believe you ought to go for is:

50 2H
46 Chants
39 Slash
Remainder in parry.

The 50 in 2H gives you your base damage. You ought to use only 2H styles (which are awesome anyway). Your 39 in Slash becomes an effective 51 with +11 SC and +1 from RR2. This will mean you get minimal to no variance in your damage, just good consistant hits.

You can spec Shield if you like, but I wouldn't personally; a hybrid 2H paladin spec will always sacrifice something - we just don't get enough spec points.

HTH :)
 

Kalidur

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thanks for all the info, i've relooked at the character builder and though this spec would prolly suite me

50 2h, 38 slash, 42 chants, 8 shield and 7 parry.

If i get to RR2 and add in mob2 and moparry 2 how much would this help out for pve ? or would i be better off going for mob3 ??



for this spec rr2 38+1+11 (off items) would i get max damage and lowest varience. also with +12 added to shield and mob 2 or 3 (would this make pve viable with a shield)

use a shield and slash to stun than switch to 2handed for positionals ? or wont that work.
 

Roken

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Don't think you can effectively stun with <8 Shield so not really viable.
Parry is effectively doubled with 2H weapons iir so as Dan said would be best to max parry and not bother with shield.
 

Kalidur

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Roken said:
Don't think you can effectively stun with <8 Shield so not really viable.
Parry is effectively doubled with 2H weapons iir so as Dan said would be best to max parry and not bother with shield.
i was thinking more of the block reaction style off slash, use the shield to engage or whatever than use the slash style to stun, than switch to 2h to do damage, or am i reading melee classes wrong.

i'm still new to melee classes all i've played are casters.

in pve say my shield was 8 +1 (rr2) + 11 (items) + mob2 how would that fair to blobking pve attacks. I'm not going for stuns off the shield only to really block pve attacks, and use the slash reactionaries. once stunned either from slash or another group memeber switch to 2h to deal out damage when stun wears off switch back to shield and slash, or just finish off with 2h.

say with that on shield would i be able to use the shield to block on a guild hunt.

and one last thing are shields useless against duel wield characters
 

Roken

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I am far far far from an expert.. in fact erm close to uber-noob in fact, but could be making life rather hard (please clever people correct me where req.) but:

You would be relying on:

Block > Riposte > Befuddler > Switch to 2H & MOVE > 2 Hand Styles

You would be low on damage off your first two attacks and i believe the stun timer on Befuddler is low meaning you *might* not be in position & equiped to make the side / rear sweet 2H styles.
 

Danamyr

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Each spec point in Shield gives you a 0.5% chance to block. For example, excluding RAs my paladin has a natural 50 in Shield. This gives him a base chance to block of 25%. Each point above 50% (+11 from SC and then +RR) also increases the chance of blocking by 0.5%. You can then add on MoB at whatever level you feel appropriate, but your chance to block is hard capped at 50%. So it makes no difference what you spec above that, your chance to block will never exceed a 1 in 2 likelihood.

Using your example:

8 +1 (rr2) + 11 (items) + mob2 =

4% + 0.5% + 5.5% + 5% = 15% chance to block.

That's pretty sucky TBH.

You'd be better going with the spec I gave you, putting all spare points into Parry and getting the Mastery of Parrying RA. Parry will be of much more use against dual wield classes like BMs, Savages, Zerkers, NSs and SBs.
 

Bahumat

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with that low in shield you wont ever land your 3 second stun or whatever it is.....tbh if your in a fg you get more than enough chances to land your back/side style with a 2hand wpn

hell if i could do it on pvp solo then in a fg on rvr its easy

crush is better if your 2hand but i found when i did my /respec all i had the 13 spec points in slash so i was kinda lumbered :(
 

Kalidur

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thanks everyone you've been very helpfull in clearing stuff up.

decided on

50 2H, 39 slash, 42 chants, 8 shield, 9 parry. (autotraining slash)

only reason i left 8 on shield was to stop archers in the BG's (engage does help to stop those arrows right, or could i switch them 8 points to parry and use a large shield without any shield spec to block arrows)

as the RR's go up planning to lower slash and add the points to parry.

rr2 39 slash 9 parry
rr3 38 slash 12 parry
rr4 37 slash 15 parry.

(doubt i'll get past rr2 though)
 

Bahumat

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Kalidur said:
thanks everyone you've been very helpfull in clearing stuff up.

decided on

50 2H, 39 slash, 42 chants, 8 shield, 9 parry. (autotraining slash)

only reason i left 8 on shield was to stop archers in the BG's (engage does help to stop those arrows right, or could i switch them 8 points to parry and use a large shield without any shield spec to block arrows)

as the RR's go up planning to lower slash and add the points to parry.

rr2 39 slash 9 parry
rr3 38 slash 12 parry
rr4 37 slash 15 parry.

(doubt i'll get past rr2 though)
rr3 is like 90k so you can get that in a few good runs.

cause your auto training you should be fine but your chants may be a bit high. this differes for everyone tho.

1 last thing if you only end up with yellow end get long wind 1 so you can perma sprint still
 

Crookshanks

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Roken said:
Parry is effectively doubled with 2H weapons iir
Erm not really. Parry works exactly the same with a 2H weapon as a 1H one. The difference comes in what you are trying to block (compared to a shield). You get the normal chance to parry when your opponent is a DW/LA class - whereas with a shield you'd have a half chance (if thats what you meant by "effectively" then ignore me ;) ).

It works the other way too - if you are facing a 2h opponent (and as an alb - there are a lot more enemy tanks who use 2H compared to the relative rarity in alb land) your chance to parry is halved whereas a shield has the normal blocking.

One other point to consider - (everything from here is based on my AFAIK) you don't need 39 in slash. All you need to ensure is that you end up with 50 slash, so if you think you can make RR3 relatively quickly, then you only need 37 +13 in slash. It caps at 50, so going above 50 doesn't decrease the variance anymore. You will still see a great variance - its one of the annoyances that the pally and armsman team leaders have been complaining about for years. With that in mind - especially on a pally you might want to go as low at 30 on slash - I really don't think you'll see much difference.


ps. although the 50 style chains off a rear positional which is a lot easier to get off in rvr - its got a shorter stun than the level 44 style which chains off the side style (7 seconds as opposed to 9 seconds off Two Moons). Again - it depends on your play style - but you might want to stop at 44 to save a few more points (of course you'll loose a bit of weaponskill too doing this)
(see http://www.camelotherald.com/styles/line.php?c=1&line=5 for info - classesofcamelot still hasn't updated its 2h styles page after they got changed)
 

Keeg

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UndyingAngel said:
2H pallys are great at higher Realm Ranks, when you have abilities to back it up :)
Lol. All classes are great at high rr.
My impression of pallys (in general - aspecially 2h) is that they are shit easy 1vs1 vs my skald. Shield pallys i gotta kite abit, but 2h i can just go in a head to head combat and i will slaughter him.
 

UndyingAngel

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Keeg said:
Lol. All classes are great at high rr.
My impression of pallys (in general - aspecially 2h) is that they are shit easy 1vs1 vs my skald. Shield pallys i gotta kite abit, but 2h i can just go in a head to head combat and i will slaughter him.
my point was 2h pallys are crap at low RR but are good at high RR's heck iv beat bibi 1on1 with my 2h back on old odins. when he/she jumped me xD
 

Keeg

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UndyingAngel said:
my point was 2h pallys are crap at low RR but are good at high RR's heck iv beat bibi 1on1 with my 2h back on old odins. when he/she jumped me xD
i have no idea what your point is.

i said that nearly all spec are good with high rr and you said that 2h pally's are crap until they get high rr - basically just stating what i said one more time.
 

Danamyr

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Paladins are not crap at all. They are a good defensive class. The Paladin abilities suit them to being S&S, and in a decent suit with capped resists they are difficult to beat.

I think the problem for Paladins playing 2H is that they are trying to play offensively, but because they have to spec Chants, they lack the skill points to have high weapon damage.

I hate saying this, but if you *really* want to play 2H you really ought to roll an Armsman and spec 50 2H, 50 Slash,Crush or Thrust and 28 Parry. You will have significantly higher hit points, higher strength and higher weapon skill. Since free Tireless, End use is less of an issue too.
 

Bahumat

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a 2 hand paladin works if your rr5+ cause you can get the mop3 which imo is needed

paladins have lower strength than alot of 2 hand tanks so either get aug str 3 to keep up or what i did was get mop3. ok i hit for less base dmg but i crit hitted alot more.

if you have about 20ish in parry you will do fine against other 2 hand tanks. problem is all the hybrids etc have dd's etc so they can do additional dmg to you.
 

scarloc

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I went 50 slash 50 2H at rr6, was quite good even though low chants (only had the red end as I recall).

Nice damage (with some MoPain), but it felt that I was missing something (cause of the lower chants). Was surprisingly good soloing (2-3shotting stealthers with slash) and not bad in a group (although obviously my chants werent working as well as they should have).

Also 50 slash for when i needed to whoop out my shield against archers and the like - since I relied on damage I figured might as well go 50 slash aswell and get diamondslash (though in hindsight it wasn't necessary, didn't use shield half as often as i thought i would).

Should be noted that pallies are loads better as S+S, can work well in groups and solo better (just slower).
 

Maeloch

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Saw that rr9 ToA'd pally was on ebay recently. Was tempted to buy it and go 2h + warlord for a laugh ;).

Mael, 50th ment.
 

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