12.000 hunters...

[Ctuchik]

divided to shoot 27 wolves...

for the first time in 45:ish years sweden has legalised the hunt for wolves.

now our wolf numbers arent staggering, just a wisper over 200. and they are largely inbred (but still healthy) and were already being illegaly hunted.

justified or not i just can't believe that the swedish goverment expected that 12.000 hunters were a good idea.

"officially" they didnt shoot more then 29 if i remember correctly, but i'm pretty damn sure ALOT more were shot but didnt get reported.

they also decided that they would disable part of the wildlife hunting laws that prohibited the use of vehicles (snow mobiles, cars etc etc) to track, preventing escape or otherwise draw attention away from the actual hunters. that, first and foremost i find REALLY disgusting.

but whats the fucking point in having a law when its not being enforced.

and the hunters also made sure that a few alpha couples were shot wich will only make the "cattle problem" worse.

hopefully the UN will do something about it as its reported to their wildlife departement so it wont happen again.


now, one of the arguments the lobby groups have been using is that ppl that live in the woods, miles and miles from anything, are to afraid to let out their fucking dogs to run free because the wolves eat them. well fucking DUH!

some of them asshats are even trying to convince ppl that THEY are being hunted by wolves when they are out walking....

rant over.

 

[rynnor]

I think its pretty pathetic - theres only around 200 wolves in the entire country and they have far more to fear from man than man needs to fear them.

If they did need culling (which I dont think they do at that level) then it should have been done by the Government taking out entire groups - they are social creatures - to take a few members of many different group is cruel and may well lead to increasing the chances of conflict with man.

It seems to be some vestigial fear that feeds this nonsense plus idiot hunters who want to boast they shot a wolf - sometimes you just have to despair over humanity.

 

[Olgaline]

This clip says alot about what hunting has come to these days...
now, personally have no issues with huting, "done properly" and "fair"
where the animal is actualy wild and has a chance to escape. also i think he's
beeing abit of ponzy whoos, but put in the same situation I would also refuse to shoot.
although be it for different reasons.

YouTube- Louis Theroux || The Killer In Me || HQ

 

[old.Tohtori]

Control is the only reason wolves should ever be hunted, they are not the enemy, they've actually helped us along our evolution path etc.

People are just ramped up to believe that wolves are evil and beasts, when they're far from it.

12.000 hunters? I knew swedish were silly, but this is meatballs deep silly.

 

[Vasconcelos]

Some years ago they legalised the wolf hunt in an specific area of the country due to an un common population growth of wolves (more than 1.500 subjects just in that province) which was threatening the cattle farms. Only during a year iirc.

 

[Tom]

Part of conserving an environment involves management. If the wolf population was getting too high (ie - too successful), you kill a few off.

It happens every year, in practically every western country. Not far from where I am, you can hear the rifles picking off the excess deer in Tatton Park, Cheshire.

People might not like it, but its often necessary if one wants to retain some kind of balance. The alternative to shooting the wolves is to move every person out of that area, and let the wolves do their own thing. That'll never happen though.

 

[Bugz]

I think its pretty pathetic - theres only around 200 wolves in the entire country and they have far more to fear from man than man needs to fear them.

If they did need culling (which I dont think they do at that level) then it should have been done by the Government taking out entire groups - they are social creatures - to take a few members of many different group is cruel and may well lead to increasing the chances of conflict with man.

It seems to be some vestigial fear that feeds this nonsense plus idiot hunters who want to boast they shot a wolf - sometimes you just have to despair over humanity.

Very rarely I agree with you rynnor but I think you have it spot on here.

 

[rynnor]

Part of conserving an environment involves management. If the wolf population was getting too high (ie - too successful), you kill a few off.

It happens every year, in practically every western country. Not far from where I am, you can hear the rifles picking off the excess deer in Tatton Park, Cheshire.

People might not like it, but its often necessary if one wants to retain some kind of balance. The alternative to shooting the wolves is to move every person out of that area, and let the wolves do their own thing. That'll never happen though.

I agree with you over the need to manage populations but to push the number of wolves below 200 in a country of that size is surely pushing them towards extinction rather than managment.

They are so low in number that they are already below the level required for long term genetic viability.

 

[Tom]

They are so low in number that they are already below the level required for long term genetic viability.

Wolves weren't there at all by 1960. They've only been recently reintroduced, from Russia of all places. Apparently the pack of 10 wolves only started to grow in the 90s, and that was only by accident.

If its a problem, there are plenty of wolves around the world to help maintain the population.

Of course, they're fluffy animals, and when they're thousands of miles from your home its easy to be outraged at their death. When they're killing your livestock its a very different matter.

 

[rynnor]

Of course, they're fluffy animals, and when they're thousands of miles from your home its easy to be outraged at their death. When they're killing your livestock its a very different matter.

Thats not what I said - its poor managment basically - if they determine the need for a cull then they should target the problem packs that are too close to farmland and cull those.

Handing out hunting permits runs the risk that you end up killing the wolves that were never a problem and leaving the troublesome ones unscathed - pretty stupid.

 

[Tom]

Handing out hunting permits runs the risk that you end up killing the wolves that were never a problem and leaving the troublesome ones unscathed - pretty stupid.

Do you have any evidence that this is what has, or is about to, happen?

 

[rynnor]

Do you have any evidence that this is what has, or is about to, happen?

Certainly - the indiscriminate nature of just using a quota.

 

[Tom]

How do you know the hunting will be indiscriminate?

 

[Ch3tan]

Certainly - the indiscriminate nature of just using a quota.

I read into this story when it first came up last week, the quota was divided by region, with regions with a bigger population given a bigger quota. So it was not just indiscriminate.

BBC News - Sweden culls its resurgent wolves

 

[rynnor]

I read into this story when it first came up last week, the quota was divided by region, with regions with a bigger population given a bigger quota. So it was not just indiscriminate.

BBC News - Sweden culls its resurgent wolves

Still pretty indiscriminate - say you have one troublesome wolf out of a population of 30 in that region - odds are that he wont be shot.

 

[Tom]

Erm, the odds are that he will be shot, since he's the one out and about while the other 30 are keeping away.

 

[dysfunction]

People might not like it, but its often necessary if one wants to retain some kind of balance. The alternative to shooting the wolves is to move every person out of that area, and let the wolves do their own thing. That'll never happen though.

Or start shooting troublesome people to keep the population down.

 

[Embattle]

Part of conserving an environment involves management. If the wolf population was getting too high (ie - too successful), you kill a few off.

It happens every year, in practically every western country. Not far from where I am, you can hear the rifles picking off the excess deer in Tatton Park, Cheshire.

People might not like it, but its often necessary if one wants to retain some kind of balance. The alternative to shooting the wolves is to move every person out of that area, and let the wolves do their own thing. That'll never happen though.

Yeah but it seems ironic considering the only animal we seem unwilling to balance is humans.

 

[Raven]

Culling of deer is important to their survival. This is because we have killed all their predators who would normally kill off the old, lame or weak. Everything is managed by humans in one way or another.

 

[Lethul]

Do you have any evidence that this is what has, or is about to, happen?

It has "happend", one of the most southern packs of wolfs. A pack that has never been reported taking pets or cattle, just their regular prey. They got hunted and out of all the wolfs in the pack they shot the alpha couple. Will that improve a situation that never was bad?

 

[Lethul]

Erm, the odds are that he will be shot, since he's the one out and about while the other 30 are keeping away.

Nono, you got allowed to hunt the wolfs at 1 jan. The hunters started tracking the wolfs in late december with different vehicles. By 2 jan 24~ of the Wolfs had been shot and a few had been fired upon (later showing that they had died from the wounds, thus it ended up at 29 dead instead of the legal 27). So they tracked all wolfs, not the "troublesome".

 

[Raven]

A kill should be 1 shot. Getting 12,000 people to charge around the country side with rifles is stupid and cruel. It should have been done by professionals and professionals only.

 

[Ctuchik]

Of course, they're fluffy animals, and when they're thousands of miles from your home its easy to be outraged at their death. When they're killing your livestock its a very different matter.

but WHY are they killing our livestock? because WE don't give them enough freaking room, and are killing off THEIR natural food.

we don't give a rats arse about the wolves habitats, if we deem in nececary to expand into them we fucking do that, and then we whine when we pay the price!

 

[Ctuchik]

Nono, you got allowed to hunt the wolfs at 1 jan. The hunters started tracking the wolfs in late december with different vehicles. By 2 jan 24~ of the Wolfs had been shot and a few had been fired upon (later showing that they had died from the wounds, thus it ended up at 29 dead instead of the legal 27). So they tracked all wolfs, not the "troublesome".

aye, they just wanted to shoot wolves and get the skin, they didnt care if it were a problem wolf or not.

 

[Ch3tan]

but WHY are they killing our livestock? because WE don't give them enough freaking room, and are killing off THEIR natural food.

we don't give a rats arse about the wolves habitats, if we deem in nececary to expand into them we fucking do that, and then we whine when we pay the price!

The thing is, you did basically kill off the wolves in your country. Their natural habitat was taken up, now you have reintroduced them and the farmers who had a free ride before are probably very miffed.

 

[Ch3tan]

aye, they just wanted to shoot wolves and get the skin, they didnt care if it were a problem wolf or not.

There was no mention from your government of only killing problem wolves, all that was said was that they want to keep the population capped at 210 wolves.

 

[Jeros]

There was no mention from your government of only killing problem wolves, all that was said was that they want to keep the population capped at 210 wolves.

Capped at 210?

Wow....

Thats a pretty small breeding pop

 

[Ctuchik]

yeah, and because of that theres plans to kill of 50 wolves for next year because some half arsed study *suggests* that theres more then they originally thought.

they dont KNOW if thats the case but they believe it, and thats aparently evidence enough.

and yes i know there werent any mention of only killing problem wolves, but thats part of the problem isnt it?

they killed ANY wolf, not only the ones causing problems.

 

[Ch3tan]

You keep talking about problems - all your government said is that it wants a sustainable population of no more than 210. There was no mention they are killing them to stop any problems.