1.62h o_0

[Mirhen Morkir]

Mythic will never give wardens spec shield, Neill as good as said so anyway, but at least they could give us intercept/guard as a trade off for the fact that we are the only medium shield user in the game that cannot spec shield.

Also if they did give us (not that they will) spec shield, they would have to up our spec points to somthing like 1.75x or more otherwise there is no way we could get shield anywhere near 42 without loosing more or less all damage output/healing ability.

1.5x shield spec would be like this.

Nurture - 49
Shield - 42
Blunt - 12
Regrowth - 2

I'm not sure many Wardens would be prepared to have that little regrowth or weapon skill. So the only other option with 1.5x spec would be to loose the 6 second PBT, top resists and haste.

Nurture - 38
Shield - 42
Blunt - 29
Regrowth - 16

-----------------------------------------------------
Inecux - Warden 50 - 1100 LGM Alchemist
Mirhen - Hero 50 - (Hero's are not the best tank in the game any more )
-----------------------------------------------------

 

[nalistah]

- If you had any items from your backpack on your quickbar (poisions, potions, etc) the quickbar icons would be deleted whenever you traded with another player. This is now fixed and the icons should remain on the quickbar and still point to the correct items in your backpack.

THHHHHHXXXXXXX!

 

[Ensceptifica]

Originally posted by Mirhen Morkir
Also if they did give us (not that they will) spec shield, they would have to up our spec points to somthing like 1.75x or more otherwise there is no way we could get shield anywhere near 42 without loosing more or less all damage output/healing ability.

1.75x specpoints would ofcourse mean a warden could decide not to spec in shield at all and take more regrowth AND weapon spec, which wouldn't be unreasonable anyway ( ; Given guard/intercept, I don't think a warden would necessarily go 42 shield just to be able to have a means to stun. But he could, giving a lot more interesting specs for a warden (as opposed to just about every warden currently having 49 nurture, low regrowth and either high weapon or high parry).

I do think a lot of wardens would be interested in dropping 6sec pbt to 8 sec to be able to stun btw. Dunno if I would be. But ofcourse it would mean bubble getting effectively even more nerfed for Hibernia than this patch is doing now (seeing it will not only be less useful vs archers, but also less common).

 

[Rollie_David]

To those saying pbt and stackable pbt wasnt one of the main problems for an archers your either kidding yourself or have never played an archer.

Unloading 6 shots onto a mage and only having the FIFTH one hit is lame and needed fixing, all these wardens crying about there being nerfed, one class in each realm can now pierce your pbt and to do decent damage you need to spec 50 bow which pretty much makes your archer a one trick horse.

 

[Rollie_David]

Originally posted by Ensceptifica


May I suggest any of the following to improve warden added value (one or some, not all; that would be too much):
- Give shield spec instead of parry
- Give possibility to guard (which seems appropriate for a warden imho)
- Give decent damage output. There is currently no way with buffs/items/speccing/RA to even come anywhere near a tank's damage output.
- Reduce mana cost or increase duration of resist buffs, so a warden doesn't RvR with 40% mana standard (or wasting mcl every time it gets back up)
- Give determination RA or decrease cost for purge.

You are a support class, the only pbt class in all 3 realms not to have pbt on a caster with 1.0 spec points, instead its on a chain wearing shield holding class.

You are support class you shouldnt be doing TANK damage

Shield spec would be ok

No reduce mana costs for resist spells, your lucky enough to have 1.5 points so you can spec resists/pbt and other nice stuff.

You are a support class your not gonna get cheap IP, determinaton etc etc

seriously do you want your warden to be a zerker damage dealing pbt class with main tank cheap ra's? cause thats what your sounding like.

 

[Ensceptifica]

Originally posted by Strapon Sally
To those saying pbt and stackable pbt wasnt one of the main problems for an archers your either kidding yourself or have never played an archer.

Unloading 6 shots onto a mage and only having the FIFTH one hit is lame and needed fixing, all these wardens crying about there being nerfed, one class in each realm can now pierce your pbt and to do decent damage you need to spec 50 bow which pretty much makes your archer a one trick horse.

I think the patch is good from an archer perspective, it's just not taking the warden into the perspective. The improvements for wardens I proposed are not aimed at negating the archer bonus. Wardens are good at protecting from archers and slow weapon users, and that's about all they're good at. Poor healing and poor fighting is only compensated by this ability, which imho is already a pretty meager trade off even before this patch is implemented. I understand it's good for archers, but wardens need a bonus in other aspects to compensate for the loss.

Besides, and I know I risk getting the archer population all over me for this ( ; but the archer problem with pbt seems to be an issue mainly when they're solo, attaking a group. In which case it's only logical that they can't just take out group members all on their own. Tanks assist eachother in groups to break a bubble, so should archers.

 

[Ensceptifica]

Originally posted by Strapon Sally
seriously do you want your warden to be a zerker damage dealing pbt class with main tank cheap ra's? cause thats what your sounding like.

I already said: not ALL of the suggestions, as that would be too much. You're pulling it out of proportions to get your point across which I already agreed on in the first place, which is kind of silly.

No, I want to be able to hit for more than 40 damage on a tank when I've dropped all my healing capabilities to spec as melee. I don't expect to hit as hard as a tank, I do expect to do more than 5% of their damage.

I agree a warden is a support class, which is why I play it, but my suggestions are intended to make a warden able to actually DO something to support. A warden has several specs to support with, all of which are not much even when fully specced in those, except for nurture, which is getting a hit now. Which is why I'm suggesting things that will improve their other abilities which would make both archers and wardens happy.

 

[Rollie_David]

Originally posted by Ensceptifica


Besides, and I know I risk getting the archer population all over me for this ( ; but the archer problem with pbt seems to be an issue mainly when they're solo, attaking a group.

Wrong, i was grouped, fully buffed and unloaded 6 shots of which only the fifth shot hit the caster i had targeted

http://www.rolandridgeback.co.uk/images/pbtjoke2.jpg

 

[Ensceptifica]

Originally posted by Strapon Sally
Wrong, i was grouped, fully buffed and unloaded 6 shots of which only the fifth shot hit the caster i had targeted i even think you was there

Then your group wasn't working together very well ( ; Most mids I encounter usually work together very well to make sure the pbt is down asap; I'm quite often their prime target for slam, stun, mez, 3 zerkers, nukes, etc. I wasn't there on that particular example btw.

 

[Rollie_David]

regardless of group that picture there shows what archers have endured for so long, pbt and stackable pbt made archery almost pointless, these new changes are justified and as only effect 2 opposiing classes to you, and even then you need to spec 50 bow to penetrate 100% of the time.

 

[Pin]

Originally posted by Ensceptifica
No, I want to be able to hit for more than 40 damage on a tank when I've dropped all my healing capabilities to spec as melee. I don't expect to hit as hard as a tank, I do expect to do more than 5% of their damage.

you are not a tank, you are a hybrid, with hybrid weaponskill. you hit for similar amounts as other hybrids with specced 1h weapons.

 

[Ensceptifica]

Originally posted by Strapon Sally
regardless of group that picture there shows what archers have endured for so long, pbt and stackable pbt made archery almost pointless, these new changes are justified and as only effect 2 opposiing classes to you, and even then you need to spec 50 bow to penetrate 100% of the time.

I already agreed the changes are justified for archers btw. I just don't agree that archers are as gimped as you make them out to be. I think part of the problem is that tons of archers just don't know how to cooperate with their group (and vice versa) because most peeps consider them a solo class. Speccing 50 bow to penetrate 100% of the time!! That sounds great, a 50 spec actually being that useful. A warden has to spec 45 nurture to get that 6sec pbt, and still it is vulnerable to everything but slow attackers, while speccing 50 in anything else means the warden is weak and useless.

I agree the changes are justified for archers, but still wardens are in need of improvements at least as much.

 

[Gahldir]

Originally posted by Strapon Sally
You are a support class, the only pbt class in all 3 realms not to have pbt on a caster with 1.0 spec points, instead its on a chain wearing shield holding class.

You are support class you shouldnt be doing TANK damage

Shield spec would be ok

No reduce mana costs for resist spells, your lucky enough to have 1.5 points so you can spec resists/pbt and other nice stuff.

You are a support class your not gonna get cheap IP, determinaton etc etc

seriously do you want your warden to be a zerker damage dealing pbt class with main tank cheap ra's? cause thats what your sounding like.

bottom line is that a warden can't do much more then PBT and resists. can't really say anything about alb and mid PBT classes, but it might be same problem. But RM looks nice, cuz Kallistor hurts lots (oki RR10 etc ).

and yes, I think wardens never will get shieldspec. and they are as likely to get shieldspec as they are getting guard and intercept even without shieldspec as these are shieldspec and tank abilities.

 

[Rollie_David]

Originally posted by Gahldir
bottom line is that a warden can't do much more then PBT and resists. can't really say anything about alb and mid PBT classes, but it might be same problem. But RM looks nice, cuz Kallistor hurts lots (oki RR10 etc ).

and yes, I think wardens never will get shieldspec. and they are as likely to get shieldspec as they are getting guard and intercept even without shieldspec as these are shieldspec and tank abilities.

alb pbt line offers eart pet, speed decrease and pbt thats all on a 1.0 spec character so if they spec the 46 i think it is for 6sec they can only spec to about 28 in another spec.

middy runnie supp line is better than the alb version but still on a cloth caster, kallistor as far as i know is/was darkness spec and has been for the majority of the time dunno whether he is/was 47 or 50 darkness but if hes 47 darkness he can get 10 sec pbt also.

Your the only class that gets resists + pbt in the same line on a 1.5 spec point character which really makes your class of one the best support classes in game, ask yourself would u replace your warden with an earth thurg or supp spec runie........i didnt think so

 

[Mirhen Morkir]

Originally posted by Strapon Sally
Wrong, i was grouped, fully buffed and unloaded 6 shots of which only the fifth shot hit the caster i had targeted

http://www.rolandridgeback.co.uk/images/pbtjoke2.jpg

I don't see any PBT block messages on that screenshot, missing has nothing to do with PBT, and if PBT blocks your shot it tells you that it was Absorbed by a magical barrier.

So frankly you screenshot means gash, the Scout TL has tested all of this, and is against the archer PA ability.

 

[old.shotgunstow]

Originally posted by Cronn
- You should now be able to delve items in your vault.

A year and a half after release, wtg mythic.

LOL

 

[Rollie_David]

Originally posted by Mirhen Morkir
I don't see any PBT block messages on that screenshot, missing has nothing to do with PBT, and if PBT blocks your shot it tells you that it was Absorbed by a magical barrier.

So frankly you screenshot means gash, the Scout TL has tested all of this, and is against the archer PA ability.

That is an old picture, taken before i do believe they fixed the bug where if your shot was absorbed by pbt and it said you missed, so frankly your comments mean gash.

btw that picture was taken last year, its not recent.

 

[Ensceptifica]

If you were meant to be able to compare classes 1 : 1 across realms, Mythic might just as well have made 3 realms with the exact same classes. I think Mythic's made a great game and it's great the way they've spread comparable abilities over different classes, and imho they've done a reasonable job at keeping it balanced (amount of players still playing / not complaining is proof of that; content people just play & don't whine here)... sometimes the balance tips too far and a class gets too much loving or too much nerfing.

Archers needed some loving, they got it. Wardens need some loving, partly as a result of it. Not much, but some. If Mythic take that too far (like giving warden shield + guard + evade + free IP/purge and 3.0x spec points, to exaggerate), other classes will be affected in too big a way, necessitating more changes.

I'm trying to suggest improvements to improve the warden side of the balance, which imho will be needed after this patch, not to make it an uber class or to whine about how uber other classes are. Try not to turn it into a flame war.

 

[Mirhen Morkir]

Originally posted by Strapon Sally
That is an old picture, taken before i do believe they fixed the bug where if your shot was absorbed by pbt and it said you missed, so frankly your comments mean gash.

You wrong buddy, we're talking about now, not months ago in previous patches. Don't try to give proof with a months old screen shot when we all know that archers miss rates where gimped along with fumble.

If you can not differentiate between misses and PBT, like in your screenshot then it means apsolutely flap all.

Go get a recent screen shot or logs (not like you can prove jack all with it) or try reading ign and your TL posts.

 

[Ensceptifica]

Originally posted by Ensceptifica
Try not to turn it into a flame war.

Thought I'd repeat myself on this one just in case (;

 

[Flimgoblin]

Originally posted by Mirhen Morkir
Damage output, I hit a Mid warrior with LW styled for 300, he hit's back for 983, I hit a Zerker for 425 with a crit, he hit's me for 600 with 1H weapons

capture some strength relics

we'll ignore the zerker - the nerf bat of damocles is hanging over their heads...

But, the damage is pretty much the same between the 2h weapon users...

just heros get 2 damage types and a 50% insta-heal
warriors get 4% extra damage, and can get full damage whilst wielding shields
and armsmen get to spec two lines to 50 for it... (oh and shinier armour)

 

[Rollie_David]

Originally posted by Mirhen Morkir
You wrong buddy, we're talking about now, not months ago in previous patches. Don't try to give proof with a months old screen shot when we all know that archers miss rates where gimped along with fumble.

If you can not differentiate between misses and PBT, like in your screenshot then it means apsolutely flap all.

Go get a recent screen shot or logs (not like you can prove jack all with it) or try reading ign and your TL posts.

So your saying that the reason i missed 5 out of 6 shots is the archer miss/fumble rate which was higher rate than normal classes but you honestly believe 5 out of 6 misses is due to miss rate and not pbt.......good one.

i do read the ign sometimes when i want a laugh, and i do read oakleifs reports, those misses are due to pbt or stackable pbt, either way it was killing archers even if we grouped we offered very little with our main spec which is a bow.

well you take this picture how you want, i have never ever missed more than 2 shots on a scout in a row, yet here i miss 5 out of 6 and your trying to tell me this isnt pbt...

let me guess your a warden, wanting duel wield and 2.5 spec points and putting on the tank damage table, maybe throw a bit of moose ability in there for some fun

 

[Trinilim]

Originally posted by old.Thanatlos
that leaves?
- Slow weapon users.. yay! we can defend against 2h warriors and polearmsman!

Be happy

They hit for a feckload and you don't take it

 

[Mirhen Morkir]

Originally posted by Strapon Sally
let me guess your a warden, wanting duel wield and 2.5 spec points and putting on the tank damage table, maybe throw a bit of moose ability in there for some fun

Nope, try reading the rest of the thread, you might feel a little bit more informed that way

 

[Ensceptifica]

Originally posted by Trinilim
Be happy

They hit for a feckload and you don't take it

Btw I still love playing a warden, I just think it's silly to say they're overpowered. The bubble is good vs 2 types of classes/attacks, it will be good vs 1 type now. Warden still won't be that gimped to stop playing it imho (although plenty of other wardens do feel that way), but calling one uber is just wrong and if anything is done next, it should include something like one of the proposed improvements.

They could have just made bub unstackable below 6sec ( ; Would even make the dmg add / self end regen an option for a warden ( ; Or 4sec, to allow 10sec / 8sec pbt classes to still stack em... which would make it more attractive for a warden to keep nurture lower, to be able to stack pbt's below the 6sec when grouped with other 8/10 sec pbt wardens, giving more spec points for other speclines ( ; Dunno if it would make it more attractive to play a warden, but I'm just brainstorming here ( ;

 

[Mirhen Morkir]

Here is a little log from IGN in relation to Archer PBT/Miss rate ...

http://vnboards.ign.com/message.asp?topic=49807045&replies=24


[17:11:33] Haxo shoots you with his bow!
[17:11:33] Haxo misses!
[17:11:36] A crystal shield covers you.
[17:11:37] The blow was absorbed by a magical barrier!
[17:11:37] Haxo shoots you with his bow!
[17:11:37] Haxo misses!
[17:11:40] Haxo shoots you with his bow!
[17:11:40] You are hit for 133 damage.
[17:11:43] A crystal shield covers you.
[17:11:43] The blow was absorbed by a magical barrier!
[17:11:43] Haxo shoots you with his bow!
[17:11:43] Haxo misses!
[17:11:47] Haxo shoots you with his bow!
[17:11:47] You are hit for 230 damage.
[17:11:48] A crystal shield covers you.
[17:11:49] The blow was absorbed by a magical barrier!
[17:11:49] Haxo shoots you with his bow!
[17:11:49] Haxo misses!
[17:11:53] Haxo shoots you with his bow!
[17:11:53] Haxo misses!
[17:11:54] A crystal shield covers you.
[17:12:00] A crystal shield covers you.
[17:12:06] A crystal shield covers you.
[17:12:12] A crystal shield covers you.
[17:12:19] A crystal shield covers you.
[17:12:25] A crystal shield covers you.
[17:12:31] A crystal shield covers you.
[17:12:37] A crystal shield covers you.
[17:12:42] A crystal shield covers you.
[17:12:48] The blow was absorbed by a magical barrier!
[17:12:48] Haxo shoots you with his bow!
[17:12:48] Haxo misses!
[17:12:49] A crystal shield covers you.
[17:12:50] The blow was absorbed by a magical barrier!
[17:12:50] Haxo shoots you with his bow!
[17:12:50] Haxo misses!
[17:12:53] Haxo shoots you with his bow!
[17:12:53] You are hit for 131 damage.
[17:12:55] A crystal shield covers you.
[17:12:55] The blow was absorbed by a magical barrier!
[17:12:55] Haxo shoots you with his bow!
[17:12:55] You block Haxo's attack!
[17:12:59] Haxo shoots you with his bow!
[17:12:59] You are hit for 118 damage.
[17:13:01] A crystal shield covers you.
[17:13:01] The blow was absorbed by a magical barrier!
[17:13:01] Haxo shoots you with his bow!
[17:13:01] Haxo misses!
[17:13:05] Haxo shoots you with his bow!
[17:13:05] Haxo misses!
[17:13:07] Haxo shoots you with his bow!
[17:13:07] You are hit for 107 damage.
[17:13:07] A crystal shield covers you.
[17:13:09] The blow was absorbed by a magical barrier!
[17:13:09] Haxo shoots you with his bow!
[17:13:09] Haxo misses!
[17:13:11] Haxo shoots you with his bow!
[17:13:11] You block Haxo's attack!
[17:13:13] A crystal shield covers you.
[17:13:13] Haxo shoots you with his bow!
[17:13:13] You are hit for 203 damage.
[17:13:17] The blow was absorbed by a magical barrier!
[17:13:17] Haxo shoots you with his bow!
[17:13:17] Haxo misses!
[17:13:19] A crystal shield covers you.
[17:13:24] You begin casting a Apotheosis spell!
[17:13:25] A crystal shield covers you.
[17:13:26] You cast a Apotheosis Spell!
[17:13:26] You heal yourself for 251 hit points.
[17:13:30] You begin casting a Apotheosis spell!
[17:13:32] A crystal shield covers you.
[17:13:33] You cast a Apotheosis Spell!
[17:13:33] You heal yourself for 270 hit points.
[17:13:33] You begin casting a Apotheosis spell!
[17:13:36] You cast a Apotheosis Spell!
[17:13:36] You heal yourself for 235 hit points.
[17:13:37] A crystal shield covers you.
[17:13:44] A crystal shield covers you.
[17:13:49] A crystal shield covers you.
[17:13:52] You cast a Mystic Crystal Lore Spell!
[17:13:56] A crystal shield covers you.
[17:14:01] The blow was absorbed by a magical barrier!
[17:14:01] Haxo shoots you with his bow!
[17:14:01] Haxo misses!
[17:14:01] A crystal shield covers you.
[17:14:05] The blow was absorbed by a magical barrier!
[17:14:05] Haxo shoots you with his bow!
[17:14:05] Haxo misses!
[17:14:08] A crystal shield covers you.
[17:14:09] The blow was absorbed by a magical barrier!
[17:14:09] Haxo shoots you with his bow!
[17:14:09] You block Haxo's attack!
[17:14:12] Haxo shoots you with his bow!
[17:14:12] You block Haxo's attack!
[17:14:14] Haxo shoots you with his bow!
[17:14:14] You block Haxo's attack!
[17:14:14] A crystal shield covers you.
[17:14:16] Haxo shoots you with his bow!
[17:14:16] Haxo misses!
[17:14:17] The blow was absorbed by a magical barrier!
[17:14:18] Haxo shoots you with his bow!
[17:14:18] Haxo misses!
[17:14:20] A crystal shield covers you.
[17:14:22] The blow was absorbed by a magical barrier!
[17:14:22] Haxo shoots you with his bow!
[17:14:22] Haxo misses!
[17:14:26] A crystal shield covers you.
[17:14:30] Haxo shoots you with his bow!
[17:14:30] Haxo misses!
[17:14:32] A crystal shield covers you.
[17:14:34] The blow was absorbed by a magical barrier!
[17:14:34] Haxo shoots you with his bow!
[17:14:34] Haxo misses!
[17:14:36] Haxo shoots you with his bow!
[17:14:36] You are hit for 137 damage.
[17:14:38] A crystal shield covers you.
[17:14:40] The blow was absorbed by a magical barrier!
[17:14:40] Haxo shoots you with his bow!
[17:14:40] Haxo misses!
[17:14:42] Haxo shoots you with his bow!
[17:14:42] You are hit for 193 damage.
[17:14:44] Haxo shoots you with his bow!
[17:14:44] You are hit for 124 damage.
[17:14:46] The blow was absorbed by a magical barrier!
[17:14:46] Haxo shoots you with his bow!
[17:14:46] Haxo misses!
[17:14:48] Haxo shoots you with his bow!
[17:14:48] You are hit for 123 damage.
[17:14:48] Taking Screenshot!
[17:14:50] Haxo shoots you with his bow!
[17:14:50] You block Haxo's attack!
[17:14:52] The blow was absorbed by a magical barrier!
[17:14:52] Haxo shoots you with his bow!
[17:14:53] Haxo misses!
[17:14:55] Haxo shoots you with his bow!
[17:14:55] Haxo misses!
[17:14:57] Haxo shoots you with his bow!
[17:14:57] You are hit for 160 damage.

I still see a lot of misses in there, strange that hey

 

[Rollie_David]

thats pendragon, u know the test centre where every class gets new bugs when they try implementing something new, which is why its still in test.


In tht post they are trying the new skills out, on a test server, try geting something better to try and convince yourself and only yourself pbt wasnt one of the main problems for an archer.

seriously tell me do YOU think those 5 out of 6 misses are nothing to do with pbt?

quote warden TL

I don't see anything wrong with the log
above? You get a misses message after the
absorb message, but that's normal.


so the misses are a direct result of pbt still?

 

[loxleyhood]

I think that archer miss rates should be decreased depending how close you are to your target. Theres nothing more annoying than slamming, moving behind, and missing your shot on a perfectly stationary target 5 inches away.

 

[Pin]

Originally posted by Mirhen Morkir
I still see a lot of misses in there, strange that hey

There's 5 straight misses, 18 absorbed by bt, 6 shield blocks and 11 hits...


what point were you making?

 

[Rollie_David]

Originally posted by Pin
There's 5 straight misses, 18 absorbed by bt, 6 shield blocks and 11 hits...


what point were you making?

yeah i mean his point is great 29 of 40 shots missed/bt/blocked, but hey nothing is wrong