EDITED: The thread about Wars and stuff

Turamber · Jul 26, 2005

Opened on behalf of Deadmanwalking so he can post his halfwitted shit here, rather than ruin a perfectly decent thread elsewhere.

...

It's beyond my understanding that a discussion of a families loss can be turned into an excuse for politically correct flaming. Or that a discussion about the Nazi threat of the 30's/40's suddenly be updated to Iraq in the 21st century.

I guess some people like to argue about anything, and have respect for nothing.

Clown · Jul 26, 2005

Retards are people too. What have you got against retards?

Deebs · Jul 26, 2005

Edited subject.

Just because someone has a differing opinion doesn't mean they are a retard.

Tom · Jul 26, 2005

But if you replace 'someone' with 'DMW', it usually does.

throdgrain · Jul 26, 2005

Turamber said:
I guess some people like to argue about anything, and have respect for nothing.

Summed up in one sentence. Case closed, thread closed.

Deebs · Jul 26, 2005

Why?

Stalin was an evil piece of shit, Hitler was. Britain in its history has done things that are comparable to these 2.

Oh, let's not forget slavery. Damn what a fine fucking idea the Brits came up with then.

Just as well that those poor bastards didn't suffer daily?

Read history people that goes back more than 100 years.

TdC · Jul 26, 2005

because history and policy is controlled by the *winners*. you can bet your rock 'ard tushie Tony, that if Hitler had won we'd have been brought up to think that Churchill and FDR were right bastards for having tried to deny us our arian dues.

we can mea culpa all we want, but in many a case we've realized we've screwed up and tried to make amends. not always though. but we've tried.

Louster · Jul 26, 2005

What the fuck? Deebs, if you read that original thread, DMW's crazy rant was triggered by one single sentence made by one poster in an entire page's worth of otherwise completely unconnected discussion. This has nothing to do with "differing opinion" and everything to do with DMW being an argumentative troll.

throdgrain · Jul 26, 2005

ok, my problem.

Both sides were as fucked up as each other, it was select small groups that we hear about (SS, Concentration camps etc).

Both sides were not as fucked up as each other. We were attacked as a country, and defended ourselves. Bad things were done in the heat of war, but it makes no difference to the fact that our country faced extinction and we were defending ourselves. As far as Im aware we had no intention to gas any jews, or indeed to invade any local countries in order to give ourselves living space.
The brutality did extend to the common soldier in many cases, the exception being in the Desert campaigns. The Germans looked at us British as natural equals though, whereas they considered Slavs to be only a small step above animals. And we all know what they thought of the Jewish people.

If I have misinterpreted this, and by both sides DMW you mean the Russians and the Germans, then I apologise.
As far as slavery goes, we surely didnt have the monopoly on that one. Niether was I aware that we invented it, though I am willing to stand corrected on that one. We certainly however abolished it a long time before other countries, notably the Americans.

Ch3tan · Jul 26, 2005

Guys its a forum, you have to at least try and accept other peoples views. And to be fair, I didnt hear RB himself complain. Threads go off topic all the time, if you consider what DMW said to be trolling, then all the responces to what he said were trolling as well.

Louster · Jul 26, 2005

Not at all. You do know the definition of "troll", right?
The responses are exactly the point.

Edit: and this sort of thing is totally typical of DMW, as lots of people have already mentioned.

Ukle · Jul 26, 2005

Deebs said:
Why?

Stalin was an evil piece of shit, Hitler was. Britain in its history has done things that are comparable to these 2.

Oh, let's not forget slavery. Damn what a fine fucking idea the Brits came up with then.

Just as well that those poor bastards didn't suffer daily?

Read history people that goes back more than 100 years.

Britain didn't invent Slavery that always been going on in one shape or form, and think it was the Netherlands who started the whole Slaving Africa idea, just the Brit's did it a LOT bigger. Also Slavery is still going on today, including in the UK.

As to parts of Britain's past being comparable to Stalin and Hitler agreed just look at the likes of Henry the VIII, but that happened hundreds of years ago. You could probably look at every country and find they have very bad points in there history, its not just Britain / Germany / Russia.

But anyway this is now going completely Off Topic.

DaGaffer · Jul 26, 2005

Deebs said:
Why?

Stalin was an evil piece of shit, Hitler was. Britain in its history has done things that are comparable to these 2.

Oh, let's not forget slavery. Damn what a fine fucking idea the Brits came up with then.

Just as well that those poor bastards didn't suffer daily?

Read history people that goes back more than 100 years.

Deebs, you know I loves ya mate, but I'm going to have slap you around like a beeyach. Britain has done nothing comparable to Stalin or Hitler. Neither the Holocaust or Stalin's forced collectivisations and the gulag have any comparable analogues in history.

Its the usual Holocaust apologists' argument is that "The British invented concentration camps", which is (sort of) true, but the scale and more importantly intent aren't even remotely comparable.

As for slavery, the British didn't invent it ("modern" slavery is a Portugese and Spanish innovation), and the British were the first to end it, and spent the best part of a century actively trying to put a stop to it using the Royal Navy. Of course, its easy to pillory the British for their (actually quite short) period of time as slavers, rather than concentrate on their efforts to eradicate it, which is actually a much more interesting story as it was driven by the British public rather than some king or Prime Minister; one of the first times in history you can see public opinion counting for something and being used for uniquivocal good.

The British may have 'done stuff' that we shouldn't be proud of, but in the context of the times they 'did stuff' in, we were far more benign than most other Empires and generally left places in a damn site better state than when we found them, and that includes India and Africa.

Ch3tan · Jul 26, 2005

Yes I understand trolling. I also understand the responses to DMW's posts were just as inflamatory.

Louster · Jul 26, 2005

Okay, given that you clearly don't, let me paste it here so you don't have to click that link.

In the context of the Internet, a troll is a person who posts inflammatory messages intended to cause a disruption in discourse.

Now, which post would you think, perhaps, disrupted that discourse?

Ch3tan · Jul 26, 2005

Yes and knowing that people still decide to turn into the human flame.

throdgrain · Jul 26, 2005

Yeah, Im afraid DMW harks back to the days of BW , with loads of people trolling away just to wind people up. Many names will occur to you im sure, its just that on this forum ol Deadman is the last of a dying breed, thank god

Louster · Jul 26, 2005

Ch3tan said:
Yes and knowing that people still decide to turn into the human flame.

Sure, but my point was that the responses weren't, themselves, "trolling". They were "being trolled".

Turamber · Jul 26, 2005

I do apologise for the original title of the thread. It was, in any event, inaccurate - DMW lacks the mental resources of the truly retarded.

OblongChicken · Jul 26, 2005

seriously though, and on topic, wasn't the holocaust funny

Sissyfoo · Jul 26, 2005

I was trolled? I feel so unclean.

Deadmanwalking · Jul 26, 2005

That's it kids get all insulting and use words you heard your big brothers say once.

Pot kettle black etc etc etc

Quite why people gave their lives so bravely to let the sad, depraved shit culture that exists now to grow is beyond me. But i suppose "teh internet" allows you all to feel all big and proud of whatever you happen to fanboying at the time.

Quote this and that all you want and "put quotation marks" everywhere. If that what makes you feel like you have made a valued and sensible remark then go for it. I only hope you actually get a fucking clue.

Oh for added measure.

Cockend..... oh look at me i'm so big.

Guest · Jul 26, 2005

have i missed summat here, what did he post in the first place????

nath · Jul 26, 2005

Yes that's all very good, and like I said in the other thread I did (to a certain extent) agree with your comment.

Deadmanwalking said:
Quite why people gave their lives so bravely to let the sad, depraved shit culture that exists now to grow is beyond me.

However, that's clearly a trolling statement.

Deebs · Jul 26, 2005

Aww

I know Britain put an end to slavery but let's not forget, in those times and before what we did would have been bad at that point in history.

Don't get me wrong, I hate hitler, stalin, saddam, mugabe, basically anyone who treats people with no respect.

All I am saying is that DMW may have trolled but his opinions were NOT retarded. They shouldn't have been posted in that thread.

And now, back to the beer. :cheers:

DaGaffer said:
Deebs, you know I loves ya mate, but I'm going to have slap you around like a beeyach. Britain has done nothing comparable to Stalin or Hitler. Neither the Holocaust or Stalin's forced collectivisations and the gulag have any comparable analogues in history.

Its the usual Holocaust apologists' argument is that "The British invented concentration camps", which is (sort of) true, but the scale and more importantly intent aren't even remotely comparable.

As for slavery, the British didn't invent it ("modern" slavery is a Portugese and Spanish innovation), and the British were the first to end it, and spent the best part of a century actively trying to put a stop to it using the Royal Navy. Of course, its easy to pillory the British for their (actually quite short) period of time as slavers, rather than concentrate on their efforts to eradicate it, which is actually a much more interesting story as it was driven by the British public rather than some king or Prime Minister; one of the first times in history you can see public opinion counting for something and being used for uniquivocal good.

The British may have 'done stuff' that we shouldn't be proud of, but in the context of the times they 'did stuff' in, we were far more benign than most other Empires and generally left places in a damn site better state than when we found them, and that includes India and Africa.

Louster · Jul 26, 2005

Deebs said:
Don't get me wrong, I hate... basically anyone who treats people with no respect.

You mean, like DMW?

Deadmanwalking · Jul 26, 2005

Deebs said:
All I am saying is that DMW may have trolled but his opinions were NOT retarded. They shouldn't have been posted in that thread.

And now, back to the beer.

I wasn't "Trolling" (Shit word for that by the way).

Ok fair play it was the wrong place for it, but so was Tom's racist comments.

Sorry RB

Edit: How many times can you say the same thing but word it differently Louster?

But i will join in. Pot Kettle Black, Kettle Pot Black, Black Kettle Pot nah fuck it i give up. You are the saddest one out of us.

Trem · Jul 26, 2005

I was about to say stuff, purely becaue RB is a long time mate and I wouldn't want him upset.

You apologised to him DMW so fair play for that I hope he accepts it.

Throd is also a mate but to save argument I will keep out of this whole thing because I know throd won't and never will get upset by a forum

Louster · Jul 26, 2005

Deadmanwalking said:
Edit: How many times can you say the same thing but word it differently Louster?

But i will join in. Pot Kettle Black, Kettle Pot Black, Black Kettle Pot nah fuck it i give up. You are the saddest one out of us.

Oh, plenty of times. Perhaps until it sinks in, maybe, and you start posting productively, without all the random insults, sarcasm, condescension and arrogance. Think you can give that a shot?

Turamber · Jul 26, 2005

Tom's not a racist. It's not racist to say that the Nazis were evil. But it is pretty darn retarded to read into that comment that Tom, and those that agree with him, consider all Germans to be evil.

As I pointed out in my post in the other thread we Brits have done some pretty shit things over the years, as have all world powers (that's how they become and manage to stay top dog for so many years), but one of the things we got right was standing up to Hitler & co.

EDITED: The thread about Wars and stuff

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