This might get me banned

Job · Oct 25, 2005

http://abcnews.go.com/Primetime/story?id=1231684&page=1&CMP=OTC-RSSFeeds0312

You may have seen this story, Prussian Blue, 13yr old twin sister white supremacists, I mean really, how much are they gonna regret this when they're older.

Mother should be locked uo for brainwashing.

Himse · Oct 25, 2005

fucking stupid. i have seen them on a tv program before, where a jewish guy was walking around the towns of the US where they are so anti-jew, that if he didnt have the TV camera with him, they told him he would have been shot.

He also met those girls, and they said they would kill him if they didnt have the camera aswell. :x

fucking lame tbh, its worse there than it is in the UK.

old.Tohtori · Oct 25, 2005

Lamb and Lynx, yeah, seen them on TV. Louie Theroux(sp?) i believe.

I don't like rasicm myself, but it's their way of life. If i was to call "nazis"(don't know correct term) waste of space of whatever, i'd be as pre-judice towards them as people towards jewish.

They have their way of life and i have o right to complain about it.

When the girls grow up, they'll be as free to choose their own way as are children of christian, jewish, white, black, asian and all other races and religions.

I wouldn't call it brainwash, just upbringing.

TdC · Oct 25, 2005

discussing that will not get you banned, but be aware that I personally consider subjects like that to be very serious stuff indeed.

imo the sad thing is that those young girls may not grow up to regret what they've been brought up to believe, because they believe it to be true. as their mother keeps them away from any and everything that may "taint" that, they may never grow to see the world differently. it amazes me that this still happens on a daily basis.

old.Tohtori · Oct 25, 2005

TdC said:
imo the sad thing is that those young girls may not grow up to regret what they've been brought up to believe, because they believe it to be true. as their mother keeps them away from any and everything that may "taint" that, they may never grow to see the world differently. it amazes me that this still happens on a daily basis.

*puts on anti-modstick gear and steps on the soapbox*<--(take it with a inch of lol)

We have to remember that these things ain't just in the nazi community. Some religions and nations are far worse even. Even in christian upbringings, strict xenophobia twards others is around, more commonly then one would imagine even.

What could be said? All nations, religions and beliefs are allright, but when they go too far, hurt other people and so forth, it's gone..too far.

We don't really know how lamb and lynx are brought up, except for the mothers' beliefs and the way media potrays them. With such anti-nazi mentality, it's hard to get an objective view on things unless you go and live there for a few weeks.

Bahumat · Oct 25, 2005

I agree with TDC, also where they live and how they are brought up will only continue this idiocy.

old.tortori, what you say is rubbish, if i brought my kids up to be murders, its ok in your eyes cause its what i wanna beleive and preach to my kids? A Nazi may not kill a jewish person (who's to say they dont) but if your brought up like those two girls then your gonna have some serious hate towards Africans, jew's etc.

Also there is a difference between a religion such as Christianity and plain Genocide, thats what Hitler and the Nazi's tried to achieve.

It does not matter if lots of different people follow different beliefs, what they are living by is wrong, how does hating another person by their skin colour/race have any justification.

Thorwyn · Oct 25, 2005

Although I´m sure that Tohtori can and will speak for himself, I think that he meant to say that people may live and believe what they want as long as they´re not attacking anyone. There´s a difference between actually killing someone and saying "I don´t like those people (for whatever reason) and won´t associate with them".
It´s the old dilemma... how much tolerance and liberalism are we ready to give and display until it starts to hurt. They got their opinions and priorities, I got mine.. that´s actually what we all believe in and what can be considered the basis of our free world.
However, as soon as those people are trying to stir the hate, pour fuel into the fire and start attacking innocent people, it´s time to react. It´s a thin ethical line.

Btw... the chrisitan example wasn´t that bad. Of course, the church doesn´t try to perform a genocide. However, you´re not allowed to invite a protestant to dinner on christmas. The roman catholic church doesn´t allow that! And if you do, you might lose your rights to spend the rest of your afterlife in a pretty garden with milk, honey and beer. It´s much more subtle than building a KZ, but nevertheless it´s as racist.

However... not something to discuss on a gaming forum.

old.Tohtori · Oct 25, 2005

Thorwyn[B&Q] said:
Although I´m sure that Tohtori can and will speak for himself,

Heh, am i that "speaky"

Yeah, exactly what i meant.

Comparing bringing up someone as a nazi and bringing someone up as a murderer isn't exatly the same thing.

My point was simply towards tolerating all beliefs, until they go too far.

With the modern day "anti terrorism" frenzy, its real easy to forget that soe are not the mirror fr the whole.

I myself know a few who elieve in certain aspects of nazi beliefs, hate "foreigners", but i'll be damned if they ever could hurt one just because they are different.

Even i think some aspects of hitlers reign were good, such as "give work to those who know how to do it", in other words, if someone's a carpenter, don't put him behind a grill in MacD's. And so forth, hope this clears up my view.

Bahumat · Oct 25, 2005

maybe christianity was a bad example but you get what i meant ^_^

Also in light of your comment, we're brought up to believe Heaven is the place to go...who's to say thats correct?

old.Tohtori · Oct 25, 2005

Bahumat said:
Also in light of your comment, we're brought up to believe Heaven is the place to go...who's to say thats correct?

Quite right. That was part of my point actually, Since we can't tell, for certain, what is right and what is wrong, we have to believe in what we FEEL is right.

It shouldn't matter if you believe in nazism, christianity, jew..err...inishm?, or the green jelly from planet Nrg'lzzrb. As long as you live and let live.

Oh by the way, christians tried genociding the jews long before the nazi

(not all exact info now on my laptop but can get my "sources" in action)

TdC · Oct 25, 2005

but that's just the thing Tohto. say I have a kid, and I bring teh tdc-spawn up to hate Fins, and I manipulate the environment to keep my kid from learning that Fins generally are really cool people then my kid will never know. this is because once my child is out of my control they'll have hated Fins for so long that it will be second nature to them and it's very hard to shake a set of beliefs that's been programmed in so intensely.

and intensely it would be, because like in the case of Lynx and Lamb, I would control everything my kid sees and learns. I'd keep them at home and teach them my personal set of beliefs and ideas because I'm a megalomaniac and don't want my kid to be my kid, I want my kid to be a perfect version of *me*.

imo it's not *what* these girls have been brought up to think that is the most evil though, it's the fact that people have made them that way that makes me see red, and what frightens me is that those people thought they were doing the right thing. in this case it's xenophobic nationalism, but it could just as well be an extreme love of cats. it's the fact that these kids havn't been allowed to form their own ideas, and are actively restricted from doing so.

DocWolfe · Oct 25, 2005

read all about them on www.somethingawful.com

old.Tohtori · Oct 25, 2005

TdC said:
the whole post is in this space...to save space

I understand what yuo're saying, and believe me, i wouldn't dream of upbringing my children (gods forbid i get one *eil laughter insert*) in that style.

But it's their choice, and that's how upbringing has worked for centuries and still does.

As an example, SOME kids eating junk food at schools and at home in england, it's not learned from da streets, it's learned behavior from upbringing.

I find that bad, that people don't teach their kids about ALL the foods around and just feed them what they want to eat.

Same thing, but i'm not gonna say "don't you dare do that or i'll kick you in the lil naughty bits!"

The biggest thing thugh, still, in upbringing is that we don't know. We don't actually know what they do, teach, eat, think, do in 10 years.

They might grow up to be jews for all we know!

So in these things, i believe we just have to let people live their life as they please, cause isn't that what WE want to do also?

Chrystina · Oct 25, 2005

Thorwyn[B&Q] said:
Btw... the chrisitan example wasn´t that bad. Of course, the church doesn´t try to perform a genocide.

erm, hello? back to history class if you truely believe what you just said...
there have been whole cultures extincted in the name of god and christianty...
and the last "witch" was burned 1793 after the witchhammer ruled for 200 years in europe and apx. 1 million "witches" were burned ...
so everyone who brings in "christianity" and "the church" as "good examples" really needs to re-think what they are saying...

Earl · Oct 25, 2005

Let ye without sin cast the first stone

cHodAX · Oct 25, 2005

Religion = Oppression

I am sorry if that offends anyone but I truely believe it, religion is and has always been about having power over the masses. Pretty much every religion on Earth has dirty little secrets and a few of them have things much more sinister in thier hidden past.

Bahumat · Oct 25, 2005

Yep i agree with cHoDAX

TdC · Oct 25, 2005

old.Tohtori said:
So in these things, i believe we just have to let people live their life as they please, cause isn't that what WE want to do also?

indeed, but I'd like an eventual mini-tdc to be able to weigh choices based on what I feel is a decent set of beliefs, and an unconditional hatred of people who don't look/smell/think the same as my kid isn't exactly what I had in mind. in preference I'd like my kid to learn for him/herself what is right and wrong, but I do reserve the right to tell them that 50hr gaming sessions and setting fire to the cat are generally bad ideas, and that boobies are generally nice to play with (but it's a good idea to get permission first) etc.

DocWolfe · Oct 25, 2005

Bahumat said:
Yep i agree with cHoDAX

its cHodAX

the capitals spell HAX. They also spell twat if you look at it right

I've said the same thing in other threads but I always get shot down :eek:

like in that hitler thread.

Ezteq · Oct 25, 2005

Songs like "Sacrifice" — a tribute to Nazi Rudolf Hess, Hitler's deputy Fuhrer — clearly show the effect of the girls' upbringing. The lyrics praise Hess as a "man of peace who wouldn't give up."

yeah and at the age of 13 they obviously worked this out and write the songs all by themselves, theyre tools, "hay folks lets change the face of the nazi from an old man with a silly moustache to two cute blonde girls!"

for some reason i find intolerance appauling but then i generally don't like people en masse, so am i intolerant? (and i don't mean any specific people just the general "mob").

old.Tohtori · Oct 25, 2005

TdC said:
indeed, but I'd like an eventual mini-tdc to be able to weigh choices based on what I feel is a decent set of beliefs, and an unconditional hatred of people who don't look/smell/think the same as my kid isn't exactly what I had in mind. in preference I'd like my kid to learn for him/herself what is right and wrong, but I do reserve the right to tell them that 50hr gaming sessions and setting fire to the cat are generally bad ideas, and that boobies are generally nice to play with (but it's a good idea to get permission first) etc.

What if yur kid, when he/She was 21, decided to believe in nazism, marry a nazi and go hae kids with him/her in alabama?

Would you support it 'cause it's the kids choice?

Would you ban the idea?

The baic question here is what YOU feel is right. It's the same with the case of Lynx and Lamb.

It's their mothers beliefs, as well as you have and feel good to teach your kids.

Don't think of my argument as what is generally though of morally correct, think of it in a way that everyone should be able to do what they want.

As i said, who knows what the kids will decide when their older. Their as much influenced as a christian(example) families kids are.

Thorwyn · Oct 25, 2005

erm, hello? back to history class if you truely believe what you just said...
there have been whole cultures extincted in the name of god and christianty...
and the last "witch" was burned 1793 after the witchhammer ruled for 200 years in europe and apx. 1 million "witches" were burned ...
so everyone who brings in "christianity" and "the church" as "good examples" really needs to re-think what they are saying...

Thanks mate... I´ve had more than enough history classes in my life. OF COURSE I´m aware of the history of the catholic church and of all the things that were done under the protection of the cross and the pope.
My example was refering to todays situation. And if you carefully read what I wrote, you might spot that the "good example" is actually, that the church and it´s dogmata is just another form of racism.
Try to read before you start flaming next time please.

TdC · Oct 25, 2005

cHodAX said:
Religion = Oppression

I am sorry if that offends anyone but I truely believe it, religion is and has always been about having power over the masses. Pretty much every religion on Earth has dirty little secrets and a few of them have things much more sinister in thier hidden past.

for some, yes, for others, no. at the time these concepts were dreamed up, possibly. some people need a belief structure, some consider certain cosmic mysteries to be facts that don't particularly need explaining and some don't regard this in any way at all. imo, religion is what you make of it, and there is little value in distrusting religion in general because people screwed up in the past and guys got dead. we're people and we make mistakes.

woo, I'm in a discussion mood today or what

Bahumat · Oct 25, 2005

I think im gonna lay off the serious pills for a bit *opens his hasselhoff pill collection*

wahooo!!!!!!!

Chrystina · Oct 25, 2005

cHodAX said:
Religion = Oppression

I am sorry if that offends anyone but I truely believe it, religion is and has always been about having power over the masses. Pretty much every religion on Earth has dirty little secrets and a few of them have things much more sinister in thier hidden past.

I am totally with papa cho on this one ...

btw, http://www.malleusmaleficarum.org is an interesting read for anyone who considers himself a "good christian" :touch:

TdC · Oct 25, 2005

old.Tohtori said:
What if yur kid, when he/She was 21, decided to believe in nazism, marry a nazi and go hae kids with him/her in alabama?

Would you support it 'cause it's the kids choice?

Would you ban the idea?

I don't know. I prefer to believe that my kid would have a very good reason or reasons to convert to nazism, cat buggery, rubber fetishism or whatever crosses my kids mind. I prefer to believe that my kid would not do something morally unsound, but in that same thought I know that as we live life we make decisions that are questionable in the extreme. we make mistakes. we do things based purely on selfish, egocentric reasons. we are not angels, nor are we machines that function utterly logicly. because I know this I extrapolate that my child will do things I will disagree with, perhaps even things that I despise. I'll try to counter that but it's entirely possible that I will fail, or that my kid will have such compelling arguments that I will change my opinion and agree. it all depends on what I feel is right, just as you say.

touching briefly on Lamb and Lynx again, Ezteq says that they are tools and I agree. these kids don't know better imo, and perhaps aren't even aware that they are being manipulated in this terrible manner. still, history is written by the victors, and if things had gone but slightly differently we'd be writing this in german, L&L would be the #1 hit and we'd all hate the Oleson twins

old.Tohtori · Oct 25, 2005

TdC said:
we'd all hate the Oleson twins

That's it! You took this too far! I know we were being polite(gosh and shock btw) and all but when you diss the Double O, it's gloves off time motherf*cker! :eek:

tris- · Oct 25, 2005

not knowing any better is the same for all kids of a young age. this is just news because people dont like nazism.

ages 5-11 or what ever it is, we go through primary shcool. we only know what the teachers tell us. imo, its only when you get to a certain age that it starts to be possible to make your own mind up.
by possible, i dont mean in a brain capacity type of way. i mean we can leave the confines of being told information by parents and teachers and go find out information that we want.

TdC · Oct 25, 2005

old.Tohtori said:
That's it! You took this too far! I know we were being polite(gosh and shock btw) and all but when you diss the Double O, it's gloves off time motherf*cker!

[highlight]You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to old.Tohtori again.[/highlight]

Cozak · Oct 25, 2005

DocWolfe said:
read all about them on www.somethingawful.com

Offtopic, you a fellow Goon Doc?

Ontopic, its really kind of sad that this is still happening, something that should have stayed in the 50's, 60's and 70's.

This might get me banned

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