Important Information and Q&A!

[MagnusGOA]

There has - rightfully - been much confusion circulating regarding the offers and promises by the EA Store and direct2drive. I can only say two things on this as of now:

1. We remain steadfast on our current line: Open Beta access is not planned to be a part of the European SE Pre-Order offer. In fact, we haven't even launched the SE Pre-Order campaign yet. This is due August 28th.
2. At the end of the day, EA is in charge of distributing WAR in Europe. This is not to say they are to blame - it takes two to tango. They, just as we, are involved in this and we need to find a solution to this mess. GOA seniors have engaged in dialogue with EA and we are all eagerly awaiting the result of this.

This is a very important issue which has a high priority for us for many reasons. Trust me, we are working hard to get an answer to this asap.


-Magnus

[Linnet]

Originally Posted by Torn

The sites say it does (and various UK laws say they have to honour this or offer a full refund) but :\

Yeah but they can't refund what you haven't yet paid and so as long as they inform you if the advertising changes before the drop date (ie. to give you a chance to cancel) they're probably golden.

Anyhow, thanks Magnus for keeping up with this one. As you say, a lot of people would like to know this.

[Malcolm]

Originally Posted by Torn

Hmm. Depends if 'Direct2Drive' counts as a community site?

I assumed community sites would be ones like these, which would have giveaways or competitions, etc. Surely direct2drive is just an 'online retailer'?

well it appears to be owned by IGN who run VN Boards community site, but I agree.

[peo]

Considering that, I'm guessing here, most european nations have advertisementlaws very similar to eachother in how they can promise things or not there will probably legally be only one recourse. Se will be given open beta and all that.
Which adds insult to injury for ce buyers (it was the primary reason why CE got closed beta and preview in the US) in Europe as the contents of the CE box gets seriously watered down in comparison.

But this is based on a guess of having similar laws regarding making promises about things in Europe, which I'm fairly certain there is due to the EU.

[Torn]

Originally Posted by peo

Considering that, I'm guessing here, most european nations have advertisementlaws very similar to eachother in how they can promise things or not there will probably legally be only one recourse. Se will be given open beta and all that.
Which adds insult to injury for ce buyers (it was the primary reason why CE got closed beta and preview in the US) in Europe as the contents of the CE box gets seriously watered down in comparison.

But this is based on a guess of having similar laws regarding making promises about things in Europe, which I'm fairly certain there is due to the EU.

Yes, there are various trade laws that apply here. The applicable EU directive is 97/7/EC which has been implemented by all member states in their own laws (e.g. for the UK that would be the Distance Selling Regulations 2000). Basically, if open beta isn't included in the product (as was advertised at the time of ordering) then the customers have every right to a full refund (despite what D2D and EA say regarding 'no refunds on MMOs') - just provide them a 'notice of cancellation' in a durable format, and e-mail counts.

The thing is, the only two sites promising open beta I can find are the official EA site and Direct2Drive.co.uk - both digital download services, not physical pre-orders. Maybe that makes things easier? I'm hoping that the EU subscribers here will count as part of the 55,000 'SE' pre-orders, or that all affected people can be added onto the open beta without much fuss.

I'd rather not cancel, but the main reason for me behind ordering the d2d version was that I would get open-beta along with the headstart, to give me time to see which classes I liked. :C

Anway, the future options as I see them:
a) Mythic/GOA add EU EAstore & D2D SE pre-orders to open beta in good faith, or
b) if (a) can't be done, retailers apologise and make full refunds available to customers (they will be legally obliged to do this)

c) if open beta can't be done, then Mythic/GOA might email special codes to the pre-order download customers affected, with another unique in-game item, or some other bonus (such as extend the SE headstart to match those with CE). Thing is, that would get the CE and US people whining, so that's pretty unlikely.

[Xandax]

Originally Posted by peo

Considering that, I'm guessing here, most european nations have advertisementlaws very similar to eachother in how they can promise things or not there will probably legally be only one recourse. Se will be given open beta and all that.
Which adds insult to injury for ce buyers (it was the primary reason why CE got closed beta and preview in the US) in Europe as the contents of the CE box gets seriously watered down in comparison.

But this is based on a guess of having similar laws regarding making promises about things in Europe, which I'm fairly certain there is due to the EU.

Except it isn't necessarily GOA or even Mythic which have to "pay" for others mess up. Might just be the instances who advertised falsely to begin with.

[Faya]

I love, for this post only, to disturb the flow but in the GERMAN version of the News letter, SE is adverted with OB access.

Faya

[peo]

Originally Posted by Xandax

Except it isn't necessarily GOA or even Mythic which have to "pay" for others mess up. Might just be the instances who advertised falsely to begin with.

Which seems to be EA in the EA-Store case.

[Mehuge]

I asked a question on the original Q&A thread on WHA which was asking why GOA chose to go with flash dispite the majority of the community seemingly not wanting it which I dont think has been answered. This is kind of the same question Nate posted above.

Q. Why did GOA choose to stick with the flash website dispite the community asking for a non-flash site?

I get the feeling the flash website is an embarrasing subject for GOA and the CMs have been instructed to not answer questions about it, we have discussed this several times on the beta boards and we never got any difinitive answeres there either. The one question we have now had answered doesnt really tell us anything except that we wont have an HTML version for release.

Is GOA not interested in the opinions of the community with regard to the flash website? Obviously the only answer you can give to this is yes, even if its really no.

Is the Account section of the website going to be in flash too? (crys it if it as I remember the pain and frustration of using DAoC account management)

Is the payment authorisation going to be better (seamlessly) integrated rather than jumping out to some third party website?

If I enter my credit card number incorrectly, will I have to wait 24 hours before I can try again like I did in DAoC? (which was rediculous quite frankly given the payment technologies available at the time)

Whilst some will defend flash, and make some very valid arguments for why its not really a problem, the fact remains that people have less issues with and are more happy with more standard html+css based websites. For one they use core browser abilities rather than relying on third party addons. And when was the last time you read a post complaining that www.warhammeronline.com does not load properly or work properly?

[MagnusGOA]

Originally Posted by Faya

I love, for this post only, to disturb the flow but in the GERMAN version of the News letter, SE is adverted with OB access.

Faya

The information given out in the German newsletter is false. Ultimately, myself and my colleagues are responsible for the accuracy of the newsletter. What happened this month is an unfortunate combination of events and situations, but ultimately, it boil down to human error.

To repeat: SE Pre-Orders will not grant automatic Open Beta access anywhere in Europe, including Germany.

Unfortunately, Sterntaler is currently in Leipzig, so conveying this message to the German communities will not be a trivial task.


-Magnus

[Faya]

Thank you for the swift clarification
As much as i agree, humans make mistake, maybe sending out emails to german customers would help managing this thing, as it might aswell end in a very big uproar from the german side?
As it is, it actually IS making a big turmoil on english/other language fan sites..

Faya

[Torn]

Originally Posted by MagnusK

To repeat: SE Pre-Orders will not grant automatic Open Beta access anywhere in Europe, including Germany.

So.. any chance of Mythic / GOA - as a gesture of good will - letting into OB those that have ordered SE versions from EA's official store, and direct2drive, where it still says 'includes open beta access'?

I mean, the infrastructure's going to be in place for launch, right, so would it hurt that much to let in a few more (possibly tens of?) thousands of Europeans that have pre-ordered from the official EA online store?

[Torn]

Maybe I'm interpreting it wrong... it could be that the 55,000 SE open beta will cover all of the EA Store and direct2drive.co.uk SE pre-orders (as they would be 'community sites')?

What happens if EAStore and direct2drive.co.uk sell more than 50,000 download pre-orders for the SE though? o_O

Some clarification on the position of EA's Online UK store and direct2drive.co.uk would be VERY appreciated, as well as details to how the 55,000 open beta keys for SE pre-orders are being divided up.

[Skorn]

READ THIS!
Snipped from the August War Newsletter.
<snip>
Players can access the Open Beta in one of two ways:
]1. Pre-Order the Collector’s edition of the game and receive a code to join the Open Beta. For more information, visit the WAR Pre-Order page.
2. Starting the first week of September, visit the EA Store to sign up for one of the limited number of spots offered by them. This is on a first come, first serve basis.

Note: If you have been playing in the Closed Beta your access will continue into the Open Beta
<snip>

[Torn]

Originally Posted by Skorn

READ THIS!
Snipped from the August War Newsletter.
<snip>
Players can access the Open Beta in one of two ways:
]1. Pre-Order the Collector’s edition of the game and receive a code to join the Open Beta. For more information, visit the WAR Pre-Order page.
2. Starting the first week of September, visit the EA Store to sign up for one of the limited number of spots offered by them. This is on a first come, first serve basis.

Note: If you have been playing in the Closed Beta your access will continue into the Open Beta
<snip>

Thanks for that Skorn. Pretty disappointing that both the official EA Store site AND direct2drive.co.uk are still (at the time of writing) saying that ordering through them will include open beta. That's almost scandalous. If it's now to be 'first come first served', why are they continuing to mislead customers?

Would others in my situation, as direct2drive customers, not be eligible for the EA 'giveaway'?



If the keys are now to be a 'free for all' because EA has severely messed up here and has not organised any coherent / sane form of key allocation of the 55,000 keys, come Sept 1st those keys are going to get snapped up in a few hours flat. That's going to leave tens of thousands of people that were promised open beta keys - which EA and d2d are contractually bound to deliver - left holding their privates and with the only option to 'suck it up or ask for a refund'.

This is far from satisfactory. Sorry if I'm coming across as a nag here, but could GOA / Mythic not communicate with EA & d2d in some way that allows all of the SE EU pre-orders there to get sent open beta keys? I mean the retail infrastructure is going in place anyway, as launch is only 10 days after the start of open beta.


Please, GOA / Mythic, if you are reading this -- as a gesture of goodwill -- give out OB keys (& the other in-game items like the ring, the camp, headstart) to those who were promised them at the time of purchase (i.e. EA & d2d SE online pre-orders, which are still advertising this).


Furthermore, if the SE pre-orders don't get open beta invites, how about the rest of the promised stuff? Here's what direct2drive.co.uk showed me at the time of purchase, and is still offering to customers that pre-order with them, along with the equivalent purchase page on EAStore uk (click for big):