Discussion in 'Return to Castle Wolfenstein League' started by BlackLotus, Nov 21, 2002.
Ok, lets discuss.
I take it these are based on skill ?
this tends to be ok for the top division , but the lower you go makes making these choices more difficult.
There is imo not much difference in division 3, 4 and 5 and some clans in 6 ... with regards to skill.
The system used for Season 1 worked really well .. as in 1 top division , 2 lower and then 3 below that. If it worked why change it .. ?
The only problem may be that the divisions are now smaller so less people can get promoted, as the amount that would have to be relegated would increase dramatically to accommodate those going up s). This isn't practical in a division of that size.
maybe then to have less divisions.
this would mean less clans or a longer season ... none of which we want so we can rule that out.
maybe having 1 first division table and 2 equal level divisions below as was with season 1 but with a few changes.
the bottom 2 of division 1 go down automatically being replaced with div 2a and div 2b's winners.
the next 2 places are played in a play off type match ( those who would finish 5th and 6th in div 1 ) would play a match against the runners up of div 2a and 2b.
This would be repeated for the lower division 3 a,b and c also.
This would give us an exciting climax to the season, make sure those on equal skill get to compete at the same level ( as we would have 2 division 2's and 3 divisions 3's ) and every clan has a decent prospect of promotion.
just an idea tho no flames plz
and reading this doesn't make much sense :/
i'll come back and edit later when my head isn't up my arse, as to make what i mean come accross better.
Divisions seem a bit mismatched.
UKM are all attending Intel lan as part of the 8 teams yet can only mange division 4 and 5 places.
Teams with a lot less play time together get into divisions 2/3.
Muppetlabs who would of been going to Intel got placed in division 6.
Just wondering how the divisions got made up - was it from memory or using clanbase or which method?
We can have some play off games to decide wich divisions are those clans going to be.
2 automatic relegations
3/4 bottom enter into play off with 2nd place teams in divisions 2a and 2b
Top teams are promoted to Division 1 automatically
2nd place teams go into a play off against the 3/4th bottom teams in Division 1
Bottom 2 teams get relegated automatically
Top teams in division 3 a/b/c get promoted automatically
2nd place teams in 3 a/b/c have a mini playoff to see who gets to be 4th team into one of the second divisions.
Top teams get automatically promoted
2nd place teams from a/b/c go into a mini playoff against each other to see who gets to be 4th team promoted.
The only dodgy bit is promotion from div 3abc to div 2ab as you are having an even amount going down into 3 leagues so the mini playoff seemed like most sensible option.
Leagues look gr8 to me! from what i no of the clans, looks like they'll be a lot of close matches, aziels idea is nice, but regarding why clans are in lower divisions....despite its faults clanbase is a good idea of how good clans really are! the clans that u mentioned that are in lower divsions, not all of them are doing well in clanbase.
I cant wait for the league to get started!
wondering what will be happening for servers? any settings that we should know about?
Toss, that will be posted later on.
Foth, BWRTCWL is a european league, not UK. You have 5 of the Intel teams playing in the first and second divisions. But to get an invite to Intel doesn't constitute a ticket to the highest divisions of BWRTCWL.
I think the divisions looks nice, we're gonna have a couple of interesting games this season. Personally I would put 187 in div2, but that is just my personal, swedish opinion.
It is hard to make "accurate" divisions, some clans probably deserve to be higher or lower. But we have spent alot of time on making these right, Blacklotus has asked many players of their opinion. It won't suit all, but I hope there will be some ggs anyway. Just too bad there won't be any WTV, but hopefully we can have somewhere to post demos.
Cheers Herr Foth thats what i was getting at
but heres a drawing that will help mebe :
Play Off Play Off
3A 3B 3C
Promoted Promoted Promoted
Promoted Promoted Promoted
3rd 3rd 3rd
4th 4th 4th
5th 5th 5th
6th 6th 6th
Relegated ? Relagated ? Relagated ?
Relagated ? Relagated ? Relagated ?
it looked better when i typed it ...
seems posting removes all those unwanted spaces .. that in this case were actually wanted
i don't agree that
2 automatic relegations
3/4 bottom enter into play off with 2nd place teams in divisions 2a and 2b"
the 2 last of this group should be play the play off against teams want to access div1 not 3 and 4.
can you rename also GROS as 2o please ?
Re: i don't agree that
I actually didn't renamed on purpose, just to see how much would you take to ask me.
I will do it when the official divisions are up
Whilst the league is running, i hear that there will be a shoutcast, gr8 idea, and i have just the man for the job, (no not me)
syk|wood hes awesome! brilliant! erotic! everything u want from a shoutcast! #sykshoutcast is here he shouts from, hes gr8 give him the job! (btw i think he has a drink problem, but then who dosent? )
Would look better with us in it...pffft...
I was using that as an example - the point i was making that some teams that dont appear particularly active yet are very high up and other that are active and doing well appear lower down -
i agree about 187 i think they should be in div 2.
With regard to CB not being a very good judge of a team - if you dont look at the actual standings but look at the results then its as accurate an idea as your going to possibly get.
Hi, I have a question.
The clans that will replace those that can't/won't participate, how will they be chosen? Arbitrarily by BW or is there a 'reserve list' to sign up on?
If so, I would like to express clan dTd's wish to be on such a list.
I know that we are almost unknown outside of Sweden and we haven't played any matches on CB yet to be judged by. Well for what its worth we went undefeated and won Div2 in the Swedish Cup 'SM-ligan' this autumn, so we aren't that bad imho.
Skillwise I would say we belong in Div3 or Div4.
So if there should be a spot open, dTd are interested in filling it.
tbh, the 2 of the div 3 clans are better than alot of the div 1 teams currently. both exido and 187 would do good in div 1. Both of them are top scandinavian teams, and that means european top standard imo.
As it has been posted before (on the league site), it's not all about skill, and Barrysworld History plays a very important part on it too.
All looks great to me....I guess only time and a few good matches will tell. Well done, all the organisers!
i would like to say to northern europe team like sweden, finland etc... don't ask to much to be in div one even if you are good in your country, you must also have a good experience of international match and some askers have none.
Remember that you must play on barrysworld server only and you will make some matchs with high difference of ping. Perhaps your valor is ok in your country but take games conditions in consideration.
Have a nice day
Objectif Online - 2o
i think that the divisons look alright except for the few odd teams.
HEL lost to r4 back in the barrysworld cup so why are they in divison 1?
i think are all better teams then HEL and probably GROS to but havent GROS split up anyway?
anyway thats my two sense i just think that some of the tables are out of date.
gros = 2o or objectif online (or smth)
Skillwise the divisions are fubar, but since its "barrysworld only" servers it makes it a rather stupid thing to call it a "world" cup. way to go. if 4k doesnt win this one, with everything arranged for them....
187 vs abyss, a swedish/norwegian meeting on a uk server .. heh
there are good reasons why some of the worlds best teams doesn`t want to participate in this "world" league, and i agree with them.
Objectif Online is the new name of GROS, our tag is now 2o and we haven't split or something, we have only changed name for sponsor, if you think we are not at our place in DIV 1, just look at our results on website and give some arguments to justify this.
irc #2o @Quakenet
This is the Barrys World Return to Castle Wolfenstein League.
As the name indicates, this league is organized by barrysworld.com, a public/p2p/clanservers company.
Everyone knows that by signing up for this league, you will have to play on the Barrysworld servers (thing that i normally mention when i talk to a nordic clan - ask Strong from Abyss). So if the league is configured like this and the clans still register up, this means they know what they are going to face, so please, posts like that aren't really much of an help.
Apache, before making any comments on the clan selection/divisions you should read the news posts and find out what made this selection be like this. HEL played on the Division 1 last season and made a very good season, therefore they are entitle to be on Division 1 for this season. Atleast you had the decency to point out clan names .
Atm the clans that are probably going to change their division is 187.rtcw and maybe UKM. Probably sykotic is going to raise a division too.
Clans that aren't going to participate untill now we have Muppet Labs, that folded and Mortal is trying to sort their situation right now.
Please have in mind that if you are good enough you will get promoted fast enough, cause this league takes 7 weeks to be finished.
Hmm strange that - why not compete? if the peering between the UK and Europe is shagged this is down to our collective ISP's being cheap gits and not barrysworld's fault.
I personally want to see europes best clans playing - to think that any of the BW admin team want to set up 4k to win is ludicrous. I can understand your frustration at the connection problems to the UK, and witnessing similar issues when I try and play on top european servers I can only sympathise with you.
TBH we need this league to run
As regards replacement clans - I think clan activity should be taken into account along with historical performances in leagues.
In my mind any clan that has completed a league (jolt, by, bw) should go to the top of the waiting list as these are clans who have proven that they can see a league out. There is nothing more frustrating for league admins than clans who fold 6 weeks into a season - its too late to replace them and it buggers the final standings up.
All of these comments are my own opinions and the head admins may well disagree with me - I am just a lowly match admin peon
GL to all clans competeing- I hope to be watching you in action shortly
There has been mention of the fact that some ppl have found it strange that it would be possible that it is possible for any of the Intel 8 clans be in division 4 & 5.
I personally do not see it has so strange. The BW league is a european league, there are plenty of talented team outside the UK. It is not surprising that some of those teams may actually be better than some of those intel 8.
If one was to write a list of all the teams in the BW league which are in the UK only (teams which have no nonUK members) then I would guess that the intel 8 teams would still feature among the top 10 uk only teams in the league.
All teams involved in the league are solid and I'm sure that a team in any division would find strong competition from those teams in the division below them.
From looking at the list I don't see any obvious team choice where the team is 2/3 divisions too high (or too low).
If feel that any team that _may_ be 1 division too high (or too low) would simply move division accordingly having won their games.
I also feel that it is not 100% important to get all the teams correct from the beginning. The point of promotion and relegation is to create the movement of teams.
The sooner the league starts, the sooner the league can maintain itself .
Rite lets just sort some shit out yea?
1)It doesnt say "world league" so piss off. If it was a "world league" then im sure barrysworld wouldnt limit the servers to barrysworld only.
2)Intel teams doesnt mean that they should be in div 1 of barrys league does it? it means that they are the best 8 out of the UNITED KINGDOM not Europe.
3) I think that with last season we had division 1 shoutcasted why not do division 1+2 tbh because div 2 is like 1b more then 2 tbh.
4) lets sort it all out and go gaming
5)Blacklotus is a pazah biatch ^_^
That's ridiculous. If the leagues are meant to be based on skill, then last season's performance (which was aggges ago) shouldn't really come into it. Granted it should have some relevance with who gets accepted into the league, but I can't see how last season's final ranking translates to this season, considering the field is much stronger, and the league is set up differently.
i agree with chak
Separate names with a comma.