Discuss! Relic Raids!

[Corran]

Ok old discussion BUT people whining about no discussions going on so here we go.

Currently in the past week or two ALL THREE realms have raided a relic keep after midnight. Hibs 1am (and a bit later on), Albs right after hibs(about 3-4am). And then mids at 2am 2nights ago.

Now, this means we on equal grounds here as to late/early (depending how you look at it) timed relic raids.


So, lets try a civil discussion here on what people think is a acceptable time to conduct such a raid.


Now, I am going to look at this logically from both sides just to get us started, but wont cover points by far.

So...

Relic raids at times such as those above! Why are they conducted.

Well, mainly the view is you got a much greater chance of completing your objective. Which is too get the relic out. The reasons for this are:

1) less chance of being spotted (see mid raid. they on door 2 before some people knew about it)

2) Not likely to be defenders when you arrive (see point 1)

3) Less available defenders, and part of good strategy is to hit the enemy when at its weakest.

4) Counter attacks are much less likely. Afteral look at the effect of mids taking hib relic. Also, look at when hibs took relic of albs and some intercepted it back when on way to Hib RK!

5) Server ability to handle large scale raids with 300+ people in zones!


ok that will do on reasons as it late


Now, I personally standing neutral on this. Thou i dont like PRE-PLANNED relic raids going at such times (aka alarm clock raids) i cant complain at the way hibs took relics and albs took advantage of situation on a spur of the moment thing.

I understand some people wanting the relics badly enough to attack when they optimise their chances, and in a battle that a good idea but im one the people that like a challenge, however i do know when a challenge ends and the impossible begins. And after countless zone crashes etc the numbers you can get for raids lowers till it pointless trying primetime. Which leaves no option.

If i thought it viable i would say never RR before 6pm bst (all europe be in from work, had dinner etc) and not after say 1am bst. (people got work etc next day). However we seen that this isnt viable so is it right that people attack at times they have in past couple off weeks, In short i say YES, but only due to server ability to handle or rather not handle large raids in certain zones. So, lets discuss about when you would rather people raid relics and reasons why.

ps. Yes im bored and just want to prove a point that in the end people will be whining, hence why i picked this subject! (later on we will have the Discuss! Stealther groups!)

edit : feck me i cant spell probably even more mistakes left!

[Shanaia]

I say more midnight relic raids when I'm playing my icewizie ... got a cute little deathspam and killing Dwera made my day not bad for a level 47 underpowered class.

[Yussef]

It is "lame" honour wise, but I doubt many people care about that . The game doesn't restrict when you can login, so early morning RR's are fine. Due to some people work at different hours and so forth. It's tactically sound also. You just need to live with it.

[Derric]

Alarmclock raids rocks when you do them, but smells when you get raided \o>

[Yussef]

Alarm clocks suck when they wake you up too

[Derric]

Originally Posted by Yussef

Alarm clocks suck when they wake you up too

Depends what they're waking you up for, but generally they're evil, yeah

[Equendil]

My opinion on the issue, raiding relics are fine at any hour of the day or the night as long as it isn't planned to artifically inflate the amount of attackers at a time when the amount of defenders is lowest.

Ie, if it so happens, say, albs spend the evening taking mid keeps and mids eventually quit defending their realms and albs chose to raid relics with whoever is left online at 4am and 40 insomniac albs end up taking relics, no problem, that's more or less what happened last time albs got str relics, or what happened two weeks ago when hibs got them. Yes it's late, yes it means that many players are sleeping and can't defend, but it also means a lot of players are sleeping and are not raiding the relics either. There's nothing 'lame' there, small raiding party, small defense, that's completely fair game.

Because a raid happens late in the night doesn't mean it's an 'alarm clock raid'. People bitching whenever a raid happened while they were sleeping don't get it it seems, but that's no different than a raid happening prime time while I'm working.

Now, an alarm clock raid is a different beast, the goal is to get as many players to raid the relics when as few as possible of the ennemy realm can defend. 97 albs raiding midgard relics at 6am a sunday morning while mids have maybe 15 level 50 online is something I would call 'lame' because it is taking advantage of something external to the game (namely, something we call real life that forces people to log off the game to sleep).

That being said, it isn't any more fair if, say, mids sneak through alb frontier primetime thanks to it being the least used frontier for RvR, don't bother taking any keep, beat relic doors down in about 5 minutes thanks to faultfinder/savages, and get away with relics before albs can even hope to defend. It's not as 'lame' as alarm clock raids because instead of taking advantage of something external to the game, it's taking advantage of flawed game design, but the goal in both cases is the same, take relics while nobody can pretend to defend.

The only difference is that there's a lot of things that can go wrong in the second case while a planned alarm clock raid can hardly fail unless few players show up.

[Eroa]

I think its way to few alarm clock dance contests tbh.

[GrivneKelmorian]

Originally Posted by Shanaia

I say more midnight relic raids when I'm playing my icewizie ... got a cute little deathspam and killing Dwera made my day not bad for a level 47 underpowered class.

make love, not war :<

<pokes Shanaia> had 3 uber guards on meh too!

[Amuse]

i think alarm clock raids are ok..

ofc i get pissed when mids do it to us, but i get pissed for 30 secs, then get ower it, and think aboute the fact that we do the same to mids..

The raids that happen like Euq said, is lovley. i love em, becouse its nothing planed, its just something that happens. like hibs did, repaired relic keep, went to the frozen lands, took a bunch of keeps, few defenders there, they take theyr relic back.. stil just a few defenders, so they attack the str relic keep, nothing happens, they take 1 the relics, and gives them to albs.. its stratigicaly smart, as mids are a stronger melee realm that albs, and they wont have the Savages 2shoting theyr casters..

Ofc, i understand mids beeing upset aboute this, but i think its good tactics, nothing else..

[Jeriraa]

Do as many alarm clock raids as you like but dont expect to keep any relics gained that way. We can switch relics 3 times a week doing alarmclock raids if thats what the players want.
Personally I want to achieve, and that achievement would be a successful primetime raid. And when my realm gains the relics in a primetime raid (wich we invested lots of work in) then I expect the other realms to respect that (you know what respect is do you?) and try at least a few primetime raids before they get bored and do the alarm clock.

[Marath]

Running a raid prime time that mids have done and even succeeded a few times is after all pretty stupid. 99% of times the defenders get just a lot of rp's. This is just my opinion but having 1-3 fps is not really fun for me. Was on the last mid raid to hib ... half of the raid died without seeing the enemy even cos of the lag and attackers dont get drawn to the screen with 100 people there and people coming on with speed 5.

Late night raid with a few fgs was actually pretty fun as fps stayed normal and could actually play the game. Its also pretty boring that getting a raid started 1 cant tell almost no1 about it cos theres so many crossrealmers that blow the whole thing before it gets started.

And nerf that latest report was 192 albs defending the last mid raid at 2 am.

So imo night raids are ok but it sure sucks to lose em then. Mids atleast deserved to lose em with the lack of interest in defending.

Night time raids >>>>>>> 1fps pain / zone crash raids.

[Cylian]

primetime raids are an achivement. Early morning raids aren't.

As for the Hib Raid that got Albs the Str relics, no matter when it started, taking relics at 3:00am in the morning during a work-week...

But why bother trying to take relics primetime? Mids are the only realm that actually does try it.

Albs primetime, maybe 70 people, more often less if they bother at all. But on alarm clock raids they suddenly bring 100+.

Since the other two realms show no respect or honor at all, I see absolutly no reason not to raid them in morning hours. Feed them some of their own 'tactics'.

[xxManiacxx]

I agree with those that say a prime-time raid is an achivment. If my realm should lose relics during a RR at lets say 19.00CET I would only congratulate that realm who managed to take the relics. Doing it at nightime isn´t a big archivment and is only like "taking the easy way out".

Can´t remember last time hibs or albs did a real prime-time raid though.

[Justicator]

Originally Posted by xxManiacxx

I agree with those that say a prime-time raid is an achivment. If my realm should lose relics during a RR at lets say 19.00CET I would only congratulate that realm who managed to take the relics. Doing it at nightime isn´t a big archivment and is only like "taking the easy way out".

Can´t remember last time hibs or albs did a real prime-time raid though.

Yes it's always possible to take the relics from mids at 19.00 cet when server can't hadle 70+ albs and same amount of defenders in that zone early in the morning. Prime-time raid and whole server would explode...

I agree... Totally... I really do.. Honestly...

Might be possible once we get Prydwen server upgraded but atm it's not .