Bad workmen! (So my mum thinks)

[Gray]

So anyway, a few days ago one of our spare rooms at home had a large wardrobe removed, because it was first taking up space, and a lot of the clothes/storage was compacted and moved.

Our house presently has 2 "bathrooms". Theres a small one, which now only has a wash-basin and toilet, and the other bathroom is a large one which was part of an extensive extension. The smaller bathroom had the bath removed, which meant while the room was small, it had a significant amount of room which wasnt particularly used.

The small bathroom is somewhat ajoining [If thats the word...] to the spare room, so mum decided to look through the local-papers, and find some builders who could knock a small doorway from the bathroom, to this spare room. Then block off the extra bit to make it into a walk-in Wardrobe - Thus saving space.

She got a number of quotes, before eventually deciding to go with a company which was "Something-Something plasterers and builders" [I will find the description in a bit - Which was from the local newspaper].

Two men started work a few days ago, they proceeded to knock the doorway in with i think a hammer of sorts. Mum initially said it should have been with a mechanical-device, but no matter. She was slightly furious for the fact however that they did not put any dustmats down, nor did they close the door.

When she come upstairs, she seen that the upstairs was like a bomb had hit it, covered in dust everywhere. They said not to worry about it though. I didnt personally see much of it, but at the end of the day when the new wall was erected [Giggle] i went to use the toilet when i noticed something at the bottom of it.

No. It wasnt a floater. It was a heavy material. What they had done is poured plaster down the toilet, and flushing it wasnt clearing it. Add on to the fact that they didnt clean anything up. So my mum pretty much spent a few hours 1] Sifting through the toilet removing the remnants of the plaster and 2] cleaning up the spare bedroom which was covered in plaster which had dried on the floor.

Their "un"professionalism astounded me greatly. The next day, the room was a complete mess again which my mum had to clean up. They bagged up some stuff [Waste] which they put outside. It was things like bricks and stuff i assume. They said THEY wont be getting rid it of, because they arent allowed to tip it.

So it was building up outside, my mum confused at this because of the fact that shes never had that issue with previous workmen. Now, i personally feel that 1] Back when we had the other extensions, my dad was alive, and he overseen much of what they was doing, but now, shes just a lowly pensioner who i assume they think can be an easy touch.

Yesterday, one of my brothers come around and looked at the doorframe before he started laughing. He said the doorframe wasnt angled correctly, so the top end of the doorframe was wider, and the bottom of the doorframe was narrower.

Today the shit hit the fan though, all i heard was a huge war of words between my mum and the single-workman who was here today, firstly over the mess he was making and over the shoddiness that she thought they were concocting. He just laughed it off though.

My mums sister arrived not long after, went upstairs. She come back down with some terrific news. She said she spoke to the workman, and found out that he ISNT a builder, and nor was his friend. Infact, they was just plasterers [Which infact, my mum had serious issues with too]. They knocked a wall in, and built up a new one, and by all accounts they was not qualified to do so.

By this time, im pretty sure steam was coming out of my dearest mothers ears, she felt she was lead along, and they falsley advertised what they was [Considering they're title was BUILDERs and Plasterers -Plus, they didnt DENY anything when they accepted the job].

The plastering work, my mum felt was crap as well, pieces of plaster had cracked off, and i believe they decided to fill in the cracks with a filler, and on the corners you can see the grills coming through, that was something i noticed though, not my mum.

The workman when he left felt totally deflated, he said he is getting a skip to to come tomorrow to clean up the back from the stuff they left and he will be here to finish some stuff off. After he left i went to inspect the "damage" and took a few pictures, some which my mum brought to my attention. In spoilers because there is about 6-7 of them.

The image tag doesnt seem to be working***

This is the doorframe a few days ago as it was barebones
ImageShack - Hosting :: baredoorgt1.jpg

This is the doorframe today, hint: Look at the top of the doorframe
ImageShack - Hosting :: doorframe1nh6.jpg

Here is the top of the doorway from the picture above. Just incase you missed it!
ImageShack - Hosting :: doorframe3el2.jpg

Here is a full picture of the doorframe. Notice the slant of the right hand beam?
ImageShack - Hosting :: doorframe2rx2.jpg

This next pic is quite awesome in its own right. There is a HUGE gap between the doorframe beam, and the actual wall. Whereas other doors have being flush to the wall...
ImageShack - Hosting :: doorgaphe8.jpg

As above, different angle.
ImageShack - Hosting :: doorgapangletl5.jpg

This is from INSIDE the small wardrobed room. My mum brought this up, i particularly dont know whats happening.
ImageShack - Hosting :: insidedoormm0.jpg

And finally.

This is regarding plastering, under the shelf a large crack is very apparent. Also the corner you can slightly see the thinning of the plaster.
ImageShack - Hosting :: plasterfirent4.jpg


So yeah. Hes coming around again tomorrow to finish up. Mum is somewhat worried over the wall, but will have to see what comes of it!

[Sar]

That is some quality shoddy work.

TBH I wouldn't pay them until everything's been fixed up to a reasonable standard.

[Gray]

Ah yeah thats what i forgot.

Mum said theres no way shes paying until its all completed, and a skip has arrived. They said they would fix a skip up in 3weeks time, but mum just said "Nope. Skip first, payment later".

The guy was slightly worried by the end of today that he wasnt going to be getting paid for it all.

[MYstIC G]

Erm. Don't want to alarm but is this upstairs or downstairs? Knocking holes in Masonry walls is not a smart move. If that's a load-bearing wall, you could be in a shit heap of trouble.

Your Mum needs to find out if this company is insured because I suspect this is only going to get worse. Keep taking photographs of absolutely everything. It would also be sensible to start writing things down, like who was there, name, contact details, etc. so if this goes tits up, they can't do a runner.

Are they registered with a trade organisation, e.g. Federation of Master Builders (FMB) or Chartered Institute of Building (CIOB)? I suggest you go over these institutions sites for more information e.g. Find A Builder - also find FMB roofers, carpenters, electricians, tilers, painters, gardeners, plasterers and many more FMB tradesmen which is an FMB site.

[taB]

Originally Posted by Gray

The guy was slightly worried by the end of today that he wasnt going to be getting paid for it all.

So he bloody well should be.

If I can't do the work myself I always use the same guy or one of his mates. He's expensive but I know I'll always get a good job. Plus I pay him in wine which I get cheaply

My Dad saw these guys' van once, found it funny as hell when he told me. No pics unfortunately:

Khan and Khan - General Builders
You've tried the 'Cowboys' - now try the Indians

From a couple of asian plumber fellers

Oh, and what Meg said. If it's Lode-bearing it needs to be braced and stuff. Can have serious consequences.

[Tom]

Right, this is what I would do.

1) Sack them
2) Get a proper builder in to do the job properly
3) If they want to take your mum to court, let them.
4) Get the proper builder to write a letter explaining what they'd done wrong, and what he had to do to rectify it.
5) If they leave any shit around, rubble etc - sue them.

[YoDa]

Well the reason the door way might be slanted is because they have put it in plumb and the wall is out of plumb which gives you the impession that it is slanted. If you have a level you should check it. They shouldent be putting plaster down the bog cause it will probly block the pipe up. If you wanted to take it futher you could report them to the local building council. As for the plaster's doing the wall they you should tell them to take it down and getting a proper brick layer in to do it right. Oh as for the plaster on the corner it is always thin there because they put a metal strip down it to give you a better corner finish. I hope that has cleared a few things up for you

[Trem]

What Yoda said (little twatbag ) and also the plastering around the fireplace is not so bad, plaster does crack as it dries sometimes. If chunks of it is falling off then they haven't prepared it correctly, such as bonding. This is just watered down PVA but it should always be used before putting fresh plaster on top.

The plaster down the bog is shocking, that could (and still may) cause you a fucking nightmare.

Can you put a level on the picture rail above the new door frame and see if the picture rail is level? Its hard to judge looking at pictures but if the rail is level then thats a special type of door, like something out of Alice in Wonderland

The gap behind the door is not right and if they are plasterers then why the fuck didn't they just at least build it up a bit?

For some expert advice can I suggest you copy and paste your first post in the building section on DIYnot.com > Forum

On there you will have proper tradesmen giving you proper and honest answers but try and get a level on stuff first and add that to your OP.

[Gray]

Put up a post on that DIY website, just waiting to see what they say then if anything.

After much rumaging around i managed to find the advertisement in our local paper. "Plastering and Property Repair. All plastering, joinery and building work. Excellent. Clean and reliable"


After a bit more searching i then found an advert which was from the local area, a bit of a description about the company.

"As your local plasterer Warrington we specialise in all aspects of plastering and building work, with many years of experience in Domestic, Commercial and Industrial work.

We can provide our expertise in a number of areas including Skimming, Dry-lining, Partitions, Over Artex, Ceilings, Patchwork, Suspended ceilings. We also offer expertise in all other aspects of building work including wooden flooring and laminate flooring.

We undertake projects in domestic properties, New build projects, extensions or renovations and plastering walls and ceiling in large commercial and public premises.

We pride ourselves on being reliable, efficient, clean, friendly and to the highest of standards. We use products and materials of the highest quality to ensure a consistent and excellent standard of work.

We mainly work from recommendation due to our high standards of work and offer a free no obligation quotation.

We operate our plasterer Warrington service to surrounding areas. "


Also, the spare room is located upstairs. It would be classified as being the front-end bedroom, and the bathroom was also at the front of the house upstairs.

I tried to find a spirit level, i know of one particular, but cant find it. Probably hiding in a toolbox outside, fucked if im looking at this time there might be loads of spiders out!

Will see what tomorrow brings now ;

[Gray]

So a slight update here. Looks like they finished off the job today, or so i think anyway. They said they're gonna be coming around on Monday to discuss pricing. Note, originally the price was estimated at about £500.

At the very beginning of the day, i decided to have just a quick look at the doorframe again, obviously that gap which was present i felt was a cause for concern. I managed to fit my finger[s] into the gap [And they arent small!]

I then got my torch and seen this:

ImageShack - Hosting :: doorgaplitor3.jpg

At the end of the day they patched it up with plastering, so now it looks like

ImageShack - Hosting :: doorgapplasterzl2.jpg

I was absolutely certain i posted this picture, but looking through it seems i havent. Yikes.

I took this picture this morning, before the workmen arrived,

ImageShack - Hosting :: insidecrackql5.jpg This was on the inside of the room, looking at the top of the wall.

After the guys had left, it looked like ImageShack - Hosting :: insidecrackplasteredbi9.jpg

The first picture showed, what i think was cracks in the plaster/wall, but then they did a reskim over it.

So yeah. They're coming on Monday, mum has been told to not answer the door at the beginning, and then to contact trading standards to get someone over as soon as possible to survey it, so we'll see how that pans out.

[Gray]

Another little update, pasted this off of the other forum, going to need to do do a letter which im not too sure about!

--

So yesterday mum got into contact with the Trading Standards first thing, they told her not to pay this while the dispute is ongoing. The builders where expected to be coming around in the early afternoon of Monday.

Mum, somewhat "worried" was told if anything was to happen, to get the police involved, of course, i had a feeling it wouldnt really go anywhere near that stage, regardless, mum called over some of my brothers just incase [Ahem].

They arrived, and before they got out of the van my mum went out and told them they're not going to be getting paid. She told them they where reported, and so no payments would be completed until their investigation is sorted.

Trading Standards said they would get back in contact with ourselves and the builders in question within 3 days or so. However this morning, Trading Standards said they would be sending over a representitive to inspect the work. About an hour later this person arrived.

I wasnt in the room, but he didnt seem happy with it. I do believe the title of this guy is Building Control[ler]. He said that the wall in question ISNT a supporting wall i think, but it was still a very bad job. The support isnt upto standard and the ceiling isnt safe at the moment.

Trading Standards just got off the phone a few minutes ago and must have recieved the report from this Building Controller. The issue at the moment is everything has to be put in writing, and this is where i am stuck. They said a letter needs to be sent to this building firm, outlining the fact that mum isnt happy with their work, AND, she will not accept them coming back into the house to "repair" any mistakes which they have done.

I was told to take pictures of the work they have done [Which luckily, i have] because the builders could go and sue us for non-payment without any proof, and they could refuse responsibility for the incidents.

Another thing which was mentioned, but i am not sure about, is Trading Standards mentioned something about the loft, and how the support isnt large enough. I dont understand this, but, i have to mention this in the letter - Does anyone know what they mean by this?

Finally, they said what we need to do is get in 3 other building companies, to check out the building work which has taken place, and to get estimate-quotes for any repairs that will need to be done. I am assuming by this, that i mention in the letter that if the repairs cost £xx.xx then do THEY pay the other builders to repair what they have done - Then we pay the original builders?

Hate writing letters, specially when im not too familiar with what has to be done!