We have lost another chunk of our RPS and BPS, what is going on GOA?

[Xmi]

Yes it has happened again!

Here is the letter (and thread to date) I have just sent to GOA... Come on GOA be more upfront, what is going on, and why can't you recompense us? Especially as this could happen again and again. This is unacceptable.

Edit: A number of other guilds in the alliance have also lost considerable rps/bps, all the more reason to make a public statement GOA.

--------------
OMG this has happened again!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

We have lost another 500k rps and 25k bps, which for a guild our size if a massive blow, and seriously limits our ability to defend the realm and hold keeps. That is nearly a million rps and nearly 50k bps, we only have 9 million rps in total, what is going on!?

To say my guild are angry and disappointed is an understatement. This is simply unacceptable especially as this bug has not been published or acknowledged publicly by GOA – that is especially unacceptable. You are running a paid for service and should not be treating us with disdain, especially as you promised to be more upfront with issues and information.

Let me reiterate, my guild members have invested time and money in not just their personal rps/bps, but also the guild rps/bps, we have a collective goal and that goal is being seriously undermined by this bug, which you have refused to compensate. Stop writing guild rps/bps off as if they are not important, they are very important to us, otherwise what is the point in having guild rps/bps?

If you can’t supply a satisfactory answer, which from your previous reply seems to be the case then I will write to Mythic asking for an explanation.

I await your response!

Xmi

Sarumans Hand Guild Leader on Excaliber

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From: support@camelot-europe.com [mailto:support@camelot-europe.com]
Sent: 13 September 2004 13:56
Subject: [Incident 040911-000092] Server rollback

Recently you requested personal assistance from our on-line support center. Below is a summary of your request and our response.

We will assume your issue has been resolved if we do not hear from you within 48 hours.

Thank you for allowing us to be of service to you.

Subject

Server rollback

Discussion Thread

Response (CM)
09/13/2004 02:56 PM

Greetings,
Thank you for the query. Unfortunately we are unable to restore lost guild realm and bounty points. The server was not rolled back but due to the technical problems, some guilds lost points. It does not affect personal realmor bounty points however.

Yours sincerely,
---------------------------------------------
European Dark Age of Camelot Community Manager

09/11/2004 11:53 AM

I am the guild master of Sarumans Hand. The server was rolled back last night, and as a result we lost 391,538 realm points and the equivalent in bounty points. This is a large amount for a small guild such as ours and we worked very hard (our time) to accrue those points.

I also noticed that other guilds around us did not lose points.

This is one of the key reasons for our guild, to accrue realm and bounty points, we monitor our success against other guilds constantly and this is a major setback for us, please can you give us back our lost realm and bounty points!

If it helps we were 9158542 rps and 99405 bounty points. We can provide screen shots as well if needed...

[Mundokar]

Oh no, not again

My guild has dinged 35 mil rps 3 times now. Last time 2 days ago. Now we are back on 33 mil again. Makes you want to cry...

[IainC]

This is what has happened.
One of the systems on Excalibur has crashed. It deals with all ingame communication and a few other things including Guild RPs and BPs.
We had a fix for it from Mythic (as mentioned in the News a few weeks ago). This patch seems to have relieved the problem but not actually fixed it - the system still crashes but not as catastrophically as it did before.
Guild RPs and BPs are calculated on the fly, they aren't stored as permanent data in the same way as personal points are - Guild points are more volatile as they can go down as well as up for various reasons. Guild RPs and BPs aren't just a value stored on a database which is why we can't simply restore the points that were lost.
We are sorry that guilds are losing points, however we are trying to fix the problem and we have made Mythic aware of the continuing issue. Unfortunately there's nothing more we can do for the moment. All of this is pretty much what I said inthe original RightNow response as posted above.

[Alithiel]

Silly bug... I wonder if BC are going to have to ding 200 million rp's for the 4th time?

[Jace]

Originally Posted by Requiel

. . . All of this is pretty much what I said in the original RightNow response as posted above.

Afraid to say this but what you've posted here bares little or no resemblance to the rightnow reply posted further up. Reminding us that this didn't affect personal bps and rps only serves to further trivialise your attitude towards the guild bp/rp loss.

[Draylor]

Originally Posted by Alithiel

Silly bug... I wonder if BC are going to have to ding 200 million rp's for the 4th time?

Dunno, but HB will have to ding 150mill for the 4th time as a result of this. Assuming of course it doesnt bug again between now and then

Lost roughly 5mill the previous times this happened - this time it was less - just under 3mill. Maybe its just my memory being dodgy though

Originally Posted by Requiel

Guild RPs and BPs are calculated on the fly, they aren't stored as permanent data in the same way as personal points are - Guild points are more volatile as they can go down as well as up for various reasons

Makes sense for BPs - but theres no way for a guilds realm point total to go down (other than this bug of course). Seems like a silly way of doing things from Mythic Really dont see how it can be 'calculated on the fly' - but its hardly important.

[IainC]

Originally Posted by Jace

Afraid to say this but what you've posted here bares little or no resemblance to the rightnow reply posted further up. Reminding us that this didn't affect personal bps and rps only serves to further trivialise your attitude towards the guild bp/rp loss.

Yes, my mistake. I wrote a more detailed explanation as a follow up to a similar query and thought it was the same one as posted here.
I'm not trivialising the issue. It's a problem that needs to be fixed however there's nothing that we here at Goa can do to fix it other than alert Mythic and wait for them to solve it.
It's worth reminding people that personal Realm and Bounty points aren't affected as it's a natural assumption that guild and personal points are dealt with by the same system and if I can clear that up then I can forestall any panic about corrupted characters or other more serious problems.

[Boni]

Originally Posted by Requiel

Guild RPs and BPs are calculated on the fly, they aren't stored as permanent data in the same way as personal points are - Guild points are more volatile as they can go down as well as up for various reasons. Guild RPs and BPs aren't just a value stored on a database which is why we can't simply restore the points that were lost.

pft, excuses. They arent calculated on the fly, you telling me that when I open my UI and see that vengance have 5 million bps, then its just quickly totting up the thousands of kills they have made? BS its stored in whatever damn structure mythic used used to encapsualte a guild, probably a 32 bit integer, when a guild gains or loses bps it does an integer addition.

You have all guild and personal bouty/realm points recorded at least in the XML or something, even if you dont backup the guilds status on a regualr basis (which tbh you of course you do, how else would a sever roll back result in earlier bps/rps eh?). Might not be 100% accurate to calcuate the loss there but you could see if the odd guilds missing hundreds of thousands of points for those that complain...

Why not just say 'sorry we cant do anything without mythic cause we dont really know how it all this technical coding stuff works chaps', sounds closer to the truth.

[Boni]

Originally Posted by Requiel

We are sorry that guilds are losing points, however we are trying to fix the problem and we have made Mythic aware of the continuing issue. Unfortunately there's nothing more we can do for the moment. All of this is pretty much what I said inthe original RightNow response as posted above.

In the meantime, if you just recorded or monitored the guild bps/rps on a daily basis you could at least reimburse guilds when they lose a lot.

[IainC]

Originally Posted by Boni

pft, excuses. They arent calculated on the fly, you telling me that when I open my UI and see that vengance have 5 million bps, then its just quickly totting up the thousands of kills they have made? BS its stored in whatever damn structure mythic used used to encapsualte a guild, probably a 32 bit integer, when a guild gains or loses bps it does an integer addition.

You have all guild and personal bouty/realm points recorded at least in the XML or something, even if you dont backup the guilds status on a regualr basis (which tbh you of course you do, how else would a sever roll back result in earlier bps/rps eh?). Might not be 100% accurate to calcuate the loss there but you could see if the odd guilds missing hundreds of thousands of points for those that complain...

Why not just say 'sorry we cant do anything without mythic cause we dont really know how it all this technical coding stuff works chaps', sounds closer to the truth.

They are calculated on the fly - not 'on demand' but every so often the server works out the value and updates the XML with it. It's not saved as a value in the guild database entry and it's not possible to manually edit it.

[Skaven]

Originally Posted by Boni

Why not just say 'sorry we cant do anything without mythic cause we dont really know how it all this technical coding stuff works chaps', sounds closer to the truth.

It's not a case of not knowing how to do it, it's more the fact that if they even touch any of the code and mythic finds out they'll throw their toys out their pram.
Losing GRP sucks, but it's hardly life ending.

[Boni]

Originally Posted by Skaven

It's not a case of not knowing how to do it, it's more the fact that if they even touch any of the code and mythic finds out they'll throw their toys out their pram.
Losing GRP sucks, but it's hardly life ending.

Ah yep, been in that situation, makes you liable cause you might be adding more bugs and such code would have to be maintained or reintroduced into mythics code base. I forget the difference from how a partnership like this should work and how it works in the real and legaly binding cross atlantic world we live in

[Boni]

Originally Posted by Requiel

They are calculated on the fly - not 'on demand' but every so often the server works out the value and updates the XML with it. It's not saved as a value in the guild database entry and it's not possible to manually edit it.

I know little about how often the XML is updated, or if its within your power to change this frequency, might there be a solution there?

'its not possible to manually edit it'... I guess you mean you cant do it with the GM tools you are have? If its stored in memory it is 'possible' to edit it, though perhaps you lack the tools to do it? Perhaps its 'private' data, so you mean your not meant to edit it directly?

Guild bounty points will be in a structure within the code on the server, it might not readily visible to you but its there.

When I gain some bounty points for my guild some bit of code does
'guildbuontypoints+=somebountypointsmytoonjustgot' .
when my UI gets drawn the code does
'Draw at someplace on the screen 'guildbountypoints''
when I do /gcinfo the code does
'Print 'you are in a noob guild that has "guildbountypoints',bountypoints'.


Maybe you could ask mythic for a 'set guild bounty points' and 'set guild realm points ' commands, such basic access functions im SURE would take them a matter of minutes to make, in fact I bet they already exist, all that they need to do is give you a console command linked to these.

[jokke]

god knows how many rp my guild have lost, must be close to 40 mil in total now. and atleast 600k BP. has this ever happend on a us server ? Or is this a europe/goa problem only ?

And another thing. will goa have anything to do with the new game DarkandLight that comes in the start of nxt year? I know alot of ppl that pray every night that they dont. Dont think ill play another goa game after this, we have had a problem for months now and you guys cant fix it.

[Diar]

Originally Posted by Requiel

One of the systems on Excalibur has crashed. It deals with all ingame communication and a few other things including Guild RPs and BPs.

it's also happening on pryd and some french server (I think), so it's not a excal only prob