Possible 8v8 setups on Origins?

[Cadelin]

Originally Posted by Manisch Depressiv

Banelord Heretic, better RA selection than Theurg, better Artifact selection than Theurg, more survivability, base line buffs, base heals and so on.

Pre tendrils nerf with Purge 3 it was just a joke: run into a group, get stunned, purge and interrupt them all.

Worked as good as a Theurg against shit groups.

Thanks for proving my point. All those classes/abilities will be removed so its seems reasonable to also remove Theurgs.

[Manisch Depressiv]

Originally Posted by Cadelin

Thanks for proving my point. All those classes/abilities will be removed so its seems reasonable to also remove Theurgs.

A Heretic was killable by LWs easily, it's just a lot didn't want to adapt. If Originis offers LWs I wouldn't see a need to remove Heretics.

The majority didn't want to adapt to a Theurg in a group and prefered to whine about the class to get it nerfed while the good opted groups still were beating Albs groups regardless of 1-2 or two good Theurgs.

Theurg is a strong class, but not overpowered in a group as there are ways to stop a Theurg. If it wouldn't be the case, Alb groups with a Theurg would auto-win.

I agree that a hard pushing group with a Theurg, regardless of if with tanks or casters mainly was a nightmare to fight, but so was a Valk/Thane/BD/Healer/Shaman-based group.

Now you could say that the Valk gets tuned down and the BD removed, and if a Theurg would stay in, it would be too hard against Theurgs, I agree on paper but would like to see how casters perform overall first in Orginis before final say on if the Theurg class removal is justified or not.

[old.windforce]

any news on what alb class is going to get pbt?

[Patriarch<>Matriarch]

Originally Posted by Manisch Depressiv

A Heretic was killable by LWs easily, it's just a lot didn't want to adapt. If Originis offers LWs I wouldn't see a need to remove Heretics.

The majority didn't want to adapt to a Theurg in a group and prefered to whine about the class to get it nerfed while the good opted groups still were beating Albs groups regardless of 1-2 or two good Theurgs.

Theurg is a strong class, but not overpowered in a group as there are ways to stop a Theurg. If it wouldn't be the case, Alb groups with a Theurg would auto-win.

I agree that a hard pushing group with a Theurg, regardless of if with tanks or casters mainly was a nightmare to fight, but so was a Valk/Thane/BD/Healer/Shaman-based group.

Now you could say that the Valk gets tuned down and the BD removed, and if a Theurg would stay in, it would be too hard against Theurgs, I agree on paper but would like to see how casters perform overall first in Orginis before final say on if the Theurg class removal is justified or not.

Yah I agree with you Manisch, the Theug is a strong class, in an alb group and a good theug will make fights interesting and equal imo. I fought Albion set groups who ran 2x theugs on US servers on many occasions. I ran as MA and driver in a Albion 2x sorc, caba, theugh, hybrid paladin, armsman, 2x cleric group and did well with it.

But at the same time both hib and mid have the power to deal with theug pet spam through pbaoeing them/aoe them. Hib can box with eld+ench and rid all pets while they kite and re-engage the albion grp with spd6 again.

Mid can do the same really with SM + RM, Sm specced for gellow cold debuffs using its lifetap and still get a blue pbaoe, or even a gellow I don't recall the fotm specs used on Mid boss atm.

I mean if we put it like this, who in this thread will play albion cus they think they will be able to make rox box 8 mans without theug?

Perhaps mythic can be flexible enough to implement the theug if they notice alb is struggling.

[Patriarch<>Matriarch]

Originally Posted by partyanimal

pre si... mids and hibs whine they want a pet spam class like theurg for rvr but for pve as well...
what did they get? bonedancer and animist
bonedancer pre-toa, average soloer in rvr, no grps... in pve ... lol , post toa uber rvr , average pve with ml9 pet
animist uber pve and uber keep defence until nerf , after that ani has just spike dam in rvr

anyway albs are much better casterwise than mids even without theurg, sorc + wizzy + caba >>> rm + sm.

BDs was kinda nice in 8v8 in SI/OF times aswell imo. I remember Maelstrom pwning with their BDs, Bananplockaren and that Sonja or whatever she was called, kobold bd, had a warrior kobold also with legendary guard skills ...

[Cadelin]

Originally Posted by Manisch Depressiv

Now you could say that the Valk gets tuned down and the BD removed, and if a Theurg would stay in, it would be too hard against Theurgs, I agree on paper but would like to see how casters perform overall first in Orginis before final say on if the Theurg class removal is justified or not.

Legendary weapons are ToA only so won't be in. (They aren't in classic either AFAIK)

If casters in general are underpowered you would suggest that rather than improve casters as a whole you would rather just add a class to alb only? If all the opted groups across all realms are running pure tank setups it saying that casters in general need a boost and you won't fix that by adding one class to one realm.

Mythic are doing exactly the same as what they are doing for WAR. An equal number of classes, with equal abilities overall. That is how they aim to achieve balance.

[Patriarch<>Matriarch]

Originally Posted by Cadelin

Legendary weapons are ToA only so won't be in. (They aren't in classic either AFAIK)

If casters in general are underpowered you would suggest that rather than improve casters as a whole you would rather just add a class to alb only? If all the opted groups across all realms are running pure tank setups it saying that casters in general need a boost and you won't fix that by adding one class to one realm.

Mythic are doing exactly the same as what they are doing for WAR. An equal number of classes, with equal abilities overall. That is how they aim to achieve balance.

Casters ain't underpowered per say, not at all. On ToA servers they are OP'ed due to having so much defensive abilities.

The thing is that "casters" are the ones who do the CC, the Rupt, and are basically the kite engines.

All 3 realms have diffrent classes who can contribute to this. Some have abit more roles to fill then others, wich makes it problematic in an equal fight where you need to do you primary job and then some. When playing cleric in a full caster setup ( rr9 ) I often had to use my bolt range shears to interrupt, so did the other cleric, and heal, re position, cure ns, cure disease, kite, stunn enemy support to halt their push and so on.

I mean you do the rupt and the kite in diffrent layers so to speak, a theug makes the group so much better since he will be focused on so much, he cannot be allowed to cast, and most often he will be running for his life, but as soon as he gets his window he can put up 3-5 pets who will turn the battle since they have to focus on the pets. This frees up the cc sorc, the body sorc and the caba to do their thing. Now you have the enemy group on the defence dealing with the pets, so your offensive tanks can go after their key classes while you can push. This goes back and forth in waves, and the one who execute their "turn" the best will get the upper hand.

Remove the theug and you tilt that balance in the way you attack and defend as an albion group, if your used to a theug.

Thats how I see it though, not that x caster is underpowered and that sorc needs to do more dmg or have longer range or cast faster. It is more a question of who will do what in the albion group. The main caster dps comes from 2x sorc and a caba deuffing them and assisting on the body sorc. If you can stop that, and at the same time juggle their tanks ( debuffs, shears, roots, mezz, your own tanks snaring them ) you will establish control and you can make your move while the albion group are sitting ducks basically. Now if there is no theug, you have no source of relayable interrupts that will free up your cc sorc body sorc and caba to do dps, lay disease and ns and push.

Ah well I guess time will tell, I'm looking forward to it atleast

[Cadelin]

Originally Posted by Patriarch<>Matriarch

Casters ain't underpowered per say, not at all. On ToA servers they are OP'ed due to having so much defensive abilities.

Its not a ToA server its origins.

[Gahn]

Originally Posted by Cadelin

Its not a ToA server its origins.

You missed his point -.-

[Manisch Depressiv]

Originally Posted by Cadelin

Mythic are doing exactly the same as what they are doing for WAR. An equal number of classes, with equal abilities overall. That is how they aim to achieve balance.

Yes, that's the only way to balance stuff out. I had some discussion with someone in the FH AoC forum trying to say that balance through differences can be achieved, an utopic approach.

[Cadelin]

Originally Posted by Gahn

You missed his point -.-

What was his point then?

[Gahn]

Originally Posted by Cadelin

What was his point then?

That Toa casters are Oped; doesn't mean that pre Toa casters were underpowered or sub par.

[Patriarch<>Matriarch]

Originally Posted by Gahn

That Toa casters are Oped; doesn't mean that pre Toa casters were underpowered or sub par.

Spot on.

[Cadelin]

Originally Posted by Gahn

That Toa casters are Oped; doesn't mean that pre Toa casters were underpowered or sub par.

So his point was completely irrelevant and there was nothing to miss.

[partyanimal]

perfect balance groupwise in daoc can be found in camlann
if you find 45 classes to choose from, difficult, try aoc or wow

sneakers, i am very interested in you describing what mids or hibs have to do to run a caster grp like you just posted about albs.
they both could use a theurgist you know

enough with casters.
we shouldn't forget about the tanks...
armsman can do a lot more dam than warrior ( can't tell about 1.91 yet )
zerker after the la nerf can out damage merc only when in vendo mode ( merc can anytime slam too)
paladin is much better in grps than a thane ( ragnaroc nerf will lower their dam a lot)
valk can be a very good interuptor, but their dam will be nerfed after 1.91