Trials 19/5/08

[svartalf]

News | City of Villains

[Bahumat]

Originally Posted by svartalf

News | City of Villains

This game was fun, untill you went to PvP. Everyone has the flying ability so if they are in trouble, they just fly off! Was really frustrating as I was a pet class.

[svartalf]

I agree, though I found it funny to use web grenade on melee classes, so they fell out of the sky and dropped to 1 HP from the fall. One shot later I won. Stupid nonsense.

The crowd control in CoH is still way too long. Snares, mezzes, stuns just make it rubbish for everybody. Invisible stealthers really put the knife in. The PvP is hopeless. Way too many obsolete systematic problems which in later games have been evolved out.

[Ctuchik]

theres really only 2 classes that to broken in CoX pvp, and thats stalkers and blappers (blasters with close to stalker damage potential). most of the other classes needs atleast a FEW hits to kill anything, but the 2 classes/specs above just takes it to the extreme.

and Cryptic isnt doing to much to fix it.

but "pvp" in this game is all about homebase camping or 1v1 duels. and god forbid if you use any pills (health regen/defense boosts etc etc).

theres one fun thing about it tho if you are a villain/hero support class with confuse (unsure of the exact name) that spell makes the enemy able to attack his allies. so if you have a friend on the other side he can cause some extreme havoc among his allies by killing them for you, without them being able to kill him (he's still friendly to them, last time i tried anyway)

and the best part is that its a allowed tactic

[Sar]

Cryptic would be doing bugger all to fix it, as they sold CoX to NCSoft ages ago. It's NCSoft looking after the continued development of CoX now

[Ctuchik]

Originally Posted by Sar

Cryptic would be doing bugger all to fix it, as they sold CoX to NCSoft ages ago. It's NCSoft looking after the continued development of CoX now

whatever. they didnt fix them when they owned it (and admitting to those 2 classes being broken in pvp) and NCSoft isnt fixing it now.

[svartalf]

Originally Posted by Ctuchik

NCSoft isnt fixing it now.

... see! THey DO listen (!)...

_Castle_
Game Designer


Reged: May 11 2006
Posts: 13 Issue 13 PvP Powers Changes
#1233139 - Tue Oct 14 2008 05:33 PM Reply Quote Quick Reply



Issue 13 PvP Powers Changes
By Floyd “Castle” Grubb

Hello again everyone. Last time, I told you about the PVE powers changes we have planned for Issue 13. This time, we're going to talk about PvP.

Player vs. Player combat (PvP) is a fun topic. Currently, we have a small portion of our players actively engage in PvP on a regular basis. We think this is in part due to problems in how PvP is implemented in our game. We want to take some steps to help make Player vs. Player encounters more attractive to a larger group of players, while at the same time opening up more "character build" options for the existing dedicated PvP players. This is a challenging issue to tackle, given the scope of the proposed changes, but we feel the time is right to address these issues.

Our first step was to look at what archetypes (AT) were actually doing in PvP. What we found was there are two distinct different PvP categories: Zone PvP and Arena PvP. This isn’t very surprising, since we originally wanted there to be differences between the two. However, the actual differences were different from what we'd initially planned. Zone PvP was less hyper specialized and formulized than Arena PvP. Zone PvP is more open to new PvPers, but more likely to see the new PvPer 'griefed' and driven out of the playzone (often, never to return.) Arena PvP by contrast, is much more civil but has a huge barrier to entry -- if your character isn't up to par, you are not likely to contribute much.

We wanted to spend time working on revamps for the existing PvP zones; but due to the massive amount of work involved we’ll need to address this in a future release. That meant that we had to focus almost entirely on Base Raids and Arena PvP. We did a lot of work on Bases, Raiding and the Cathedral, but we have to save that for later -- those are all works in progress for a future update. Arena PvP, though, was a self contained area which could be isolated and worked with. It also provides an excellent testbed for Base Raids, since the two are at least in the most basic terms similar. That's where we focused our attention.

We began by looking at the disparities that existed, and discussed how to address them. Ultimately, we decided that in order to allow better competition between the AT's and powersets, we needed to take some drastic measures. We decided that a different rule set needed to apply in PvP than in PvE. By changing the basic rules, we hope to encourage a greater variety of character builds in Arena PvP, and ultimately in Base Raids and Zone PVP.

At the core, many of the power effects are the same: Heals still heal, attacks still deal damage, and holds still hold. However, the new system makes a number of adjustments that should be friendlier to a wider range of AT's and skill levels. The goal is for players to be able to bring any AT and powerset combination into PVP and to be competitive and have fun! Furthermore, with the Issue 13’s Multiple builds feature, players can design a PvP specific build and not have it affect their normal character.

There are still a number of balance factors which we are working through; the prevalence of Phase Shift type defenses, "caging" and "Spiking" to name a few. These are things we are working on in the beta process to find the correct balance.

So, without further ado, here is the list of the current changes and how they were implemented. Please keep in mind that there is still more testing and tuning to be done.

Diminishing Returns
Nearly all attributes characters have are now subject to Diminishing Returns. The specific numbers vary from attribute to attribute, and from class to class (it's easier to Buff Resistance and Defense on a Tanker, than on a Blaster.)
In general, a single buff will have near full effect, while additional buffs begin to offer less and less benefit. Example: Under the old system, Aim + Build up might provide a combined 67% To Hit buff, while under this system it provides a combined 49% To Hit Buff.
The calculation is based on the sum of all buffs, so the order the buffs are applied in does not matter.
It is important to note that the Real Numbers tool will not always report the results of diminishing returns accurately, at least initially. This is specifically true of Damage Buffs, which always display the Pre-Diminished value.

Melee Attacks
Changed Melee Range to 7'. Since this is essentially a buff, this effect will be present in PVE as well.

Travel Powers
PvE Travel Suppression continues to work as it has since it was introduced. PvP Travel Suppression will be handled differently, however (see below.)
All Teleportation and Summonable Teleportals are Disabled while PvP Travel Suppression is active.
The Duration of Movement Suppression in PvP is now variable based on the most recent suppression event applicable to the character. In case of multiple events applicable on the same server tick, only the longest value is applied.

Suppression events are:
Activating a foe TargetedRange (range > 7') damaging Power: 3s * Sum of damage scales.
Example1: Power Bolt has a damage Scale of 1.0 (0.1 + 0.9) resulting in a Suppression Duration of 3 seconds.
Example2: Power Burst has a damage scale of 2.12 resulting in a Suppression Duration of 6.39 seconds.
Activating a foe Targeted Melee (Range >0' && Range => 7') damaging Power: 2s* Sum of damage scales.
Example1: Swipe has a damage scale of 0.76 resulting in a suppression time of 1.52 seconds.
Example2: Eviscerate has a damage scale of 1.99 resulting in a suppression time of 3.98 seconds.
Activating a foe targeted Range debuff or control power: 3.5s
Activating a foe targeted Melee debuff or control power: 2.5s
Placing a Location Based Entity: 4s
Activating a self or friend targeted Heal power: 4s
Activating a Friend targeted Buff power: 4s
Being the target of an attack: 2s

Control Powers
Control power changes are fairly extensive. The goal here was to make control effects less binary in nature. The shorter durations of status effects, combined with the change from status Protection to Status resistance means that these powers will now how impact on a PvP situation more frequently, but are no longer quite as severe a deciding factor.
For Controllers: Change Duration base to 4 seconds for Stun, Sleep, Hold, Immobilize, Terrorize, Confuse, Untouchable, Intangible attributes. Duration of Status Effects (Hold, Sleep, etc.) no longer scale by level; instead they have fixed base durations.
For Dominators: Change normal control Duration base to 4 seconds for Stun, Sleep, Hold, Immobilize, Terrorize, Confuse, Untouchable, Intangible attributes. Duration of Status Effects (Hold, Sleep, etc.) no longer scale by level; instead they have fixed base durations. Change Domination control Duration base to 4 seconds for Stun, Sleep, Hold, Immobilize, Terrorize, Confuse, Untouchable, Intangible attribs. Duration of Status Effects (Hold, Sleep, etc.) no longer scale by level; instead they have fixed base durations. Change Magnitude bonus from +3 to +1.
For ALL OTHERS: Change control Duration base to 2 seconds for Stun, Sleep, Hold, Immobilize, Terrorize, Confuse, Untouchable, Intangible attributes. Duration of Status Effects (Hold, Sleep, etc.) no longer scale by level; instead they have fixed base durations.
For Tankers: Change Taunt to a fixed 6 second duration.
For Scrappers and Brutes: Change Taunt to a fixed 4 second duration.
For the Manipulation Pool: Change Taunt to a fixed 4 second duration.
For Stalkers: Change Placate to a fixed 10 second duration.
For VEATs: Change Placate to a fixed 4 second duration.

Buff and Heal Powers
A Heal Event now imposes a 25% Resistance to further heals on the character, regardless of source. This Resistance to heals will last for 15 seconds, and stacks with itself. This means that if you are healed 4 times, no further healing will affect you until the resistance duration ends.
Status Protection attributes for all statuses except Knockback and Knock up changed to Status Resist. For example, a Tanker running Unyielding at level 50 has 12.975 points of protection in PVE, while in PVP he has 129.75% Hold Resistance. That will convert an 8 second hold into a 3.48 second hold.

Damage Powers
Powers now calculate damage based on their activation time, instead of their recharge.
Lower activation time powers get a slight bonus to damage, due to chaining low damage powers being difficult in PvP.
Longer Recharge time powers also get a slight damage bonus, so higher level powers with long recharge times deal extra damage.
Damage has been adjusted for all AT's, reducing the damage gap between each AT.

Resistance Powers
Each AT now recieves a bonus resist buff while in PVP, in order to set each AT closer in overall survivability. This resist primarily reduces up the gap in hitpoints between lower hitpoint AT's and higher hitpoint AT's
Epic armors and Tough (Pool Power) now provide resistance to all damage types while in PVP.
Any armor set lacking a type of resist or defense will now provide it while in PvP zones.

Taunt Powers (NOTE: These changes are effective in PVE as well! They are essentially accross the board buffs which should give greater crowd control ability to those who possess these power.)
Add 75% Range Debuff to Tanker Taunt (full aoe)
Add 75% Range Debuff to Scrapper Confront (and equivalents.) These remain single target.
Add 75% Range Debuff to Brute Taunt/Confront powers. The Range Debuff should have radius outer set to 0 so it only affects the main target.

Classes Tables
Increased MAX RESIST value for all status effect attribs. This means status resistance effects will have more meaning. This also affects PVE.
IncreaseRange STR MIN value to 25%. This means no player or critter powers range can be decreased to more than 25% of its original range. So, an 80' attack can never be debuffed below 25'. This also effects PVE.

So, there you have it. A whole slew of changes for you to chew over, plan around...and test on the Training Room! We still have a lot of testing and tuning to do. While our initial playtests are showing these changes to be fun, we’ll ultimately look to broader playtests to validate the changes.

Here's hoping you all enjoy it!
Floyd 'Castle' Grubb


Edited by GhostRaptor (Wed Oct 15 2008 11:07 AM)

[Ctuchik]

Originally Posted by svartalf

... see! THey DO listen (!)...

no not really, blappers and stalkers will still dominate the pvp fields, 1 or 2 shotting squishys.

infact they are buffing stalker damage (atleast their from stealth opener) that ALREADY deals 900+ damage at 50 to squishys because its one of the slowest attacks to get off in the game, that can just barely break 1k HP at the best of times.

so insted of actually fixing the problems, they made it worse.

/edit: the more i read the less confident i am that NCsoft actually know what the fuck they are doing... i mean, heal resistance??!? heals are the ONLY thing that keeps squishys alive ffs. and now were not even getting THAT option. well, thats me rerolling my emp healer to something with massive +def and +res.

[svartalf]

Originally Posted by Ctuchik

well, thats me rerolling my emp healer to something with massive +def and +res.

You're on defiant, aren't you?

[Ctuchik]

no i'm on the US servers. never got any hits when i was looking for a EU SG so i never bothered to transfer, and now they dont have that offer available anymore. i have a EU code on my master account tho so i can always start that one up if i wanted to play there but meh. cba starting all over again.

[svartalf]

Originally Posted by Ctuchik

cba starting all over again.

But... that's the best bit!